Click here

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Answers

Mark....

Your site smacks of the very class warfare that is destroying this country and it is one of the reasons I feel the Democratic party is the scourge of the nation. It is the exact thing that Clinton/Gore have fed on the last 8 years.

Mark....are you going to look us straight in the cyber face and tell us that you believe in your heart of hearts that this nation would be better off with Al Gore as opposed to "W"???? Do you really believe that??

If you do, that scares me.....because chances are there are other confessing Christian people who believe the same thing.

Keep in mind, Al Gore believes that it is acceptable to take a partially born baby, stick scissors in the back of the skull, and then suction the brain fluid out.

Twice, legislation has come to Clinton to stop this slaughter and he has vetoed it and Al Gore has said he supported Clinton in that.

If "W" gets elected for no other reason but to stop this, it will be worth it.

Really Mark, quit pussy-footing and tell us. Are you going to support Gore over "W"?? (And if you give the answer, that's none of my business, then you have given me your answer.)

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Connie,

The beauty of the Restoration Movement is that.....while Mark and I may heatedly disagree on politics.....I still consider him a brother in Christ and would in love do anything I could to help him in a time of need.

Mark.....couple of things.....

1) Is there such a thing as a "viable third party candiate?" LOL!!

2) "W" is not my most favorite person in the world. I liked him better than McCain....and certainly more than Dole I think Bush's "breast cancer" thing on McCain was bogus and unfair. That being said, I'm only interested in one thing now.....WINNING....and getting all remnants of Clinton/Gore out of there before the country goes beyond repair. Winning now is everything. Do you realize the Chinese have recently raised their military spending 12%?? This ought to be of grave concern. At least I know with Bush (among other good things about him), the military will receive priority.

3) Here is another thing for you to ponder considering the oil prices....could it be OPEC nations are retaliating against Clinton for some of his faulty foreign policies (i.e., bombing an aspirin factory) done for no other reason but to take attention away from his numerous scandals?? Could this be there way of punishing him?? Have you noticed there have been no bombings of anything since the indictments have ended?? A number of serious political commentators have put forth that suggestion.

4) Alan Keyes was very right about this. Until America deals with its moral issues (i.e., abortion)....all else means nothing.

Thanks for the dialog.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Well....time to update and correct the current "slop" coming out of the Gore campaign.

1) Seems like the new tactic is going to be to quote McCain when McCain blasted Republicans.

Answer: Remember......McCain lost......big!!!!!!

2) Gore is pounding the need for campaign finance reform.

Answer: Go ahead. Keep quoting McCain. He lost!!! Answer: Campaign finance reform from a man who took money from Buddhist, and made calls from the Whithouse??? Just like gun laws, this administration believes the answer is new laws. How about enforcing the laws already on the books Mr. Gore, whether it be campaign finance or gun laws? (BTW....the prosecution of existing federal gun laws has gone down 80% since Clinton took office.) Answer: This talk from Gore about Campaign Finance is only to try and sway some McCain voters his way. In November, it will not be an issue as polls show that the topic is way down on the American agenda.

3) Gore is going to run on asking Americans to continue the properity started by him and Clinton.

Answer: Lie..Lie...Lie. Leading economist have continually pointed out that the economy is still running on principles laid out by Ronald Reagan.....and....that the upswing of the economy actually began the last year Bush was in office.

Answer: The economy grew and is properous because of a Repulican majority in the house and congress. Keep in mind in 1993 Clinton passed the largest tax and spend measure in history. He was sure to continue the same thing except for one thing.....the Repulicans took over in 1994 and he was stopped in his tracks.

On some other notes....here is what we can expect from the Gore administration.....get use to these gas prices and higher....because Gore doesn't care.

1) He maintains that the combustion engine is a plague. He wants you to use your car less.

2) His press secretary last night stated, and I quote..."Americans need to quit driving gas guzzler vehicles."

In other words folks, the govt. under Gore, wants to tell you what you can and cannot drive. Dangerous!!!

BTW....when the press secretary was asked what he drived he said he had a small car....BUT....his wife has a sport utility vehicle.

Ah.....there's a typical democrat. They can have it....but no one else can.

Also, the Chinese just increased military spending by 12%. If Gore wins.....you might might to study that Chinese.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2000

John,

And they will probably use the missile technology Clinton sold them! LOL!!

What else can you do but laugh about it??

Seriously John, it is amazing to me that anyone would support the Clinton Administration (I include Gore in this)....in light of these developments.

Let's hope there is still some people in the US with common sense.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2000

Connie,

I saw nothing in your post that required a response....and still don't.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Oh....I'm sorry....I thought this was the "Bush/Gore" thread.

My bad!!

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Or

click here or click here

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

I am waiting to see if there might be a viable third party candidate.

Additionally, given we have an electoral college system, that has always influenced my vote. In 1996, it was clear Dole was going to win in Texas where I was, so I registered a "protest" vote. Similarly in 1992 (it was clear Bush would win Virginia), in 1988 (again, clear Bush was going to win Maryland), and in 1984 (clear Reagan was going to win Florida). In 1980 I was only 16. Primaries are an other story, I have taken those votes seriously (84 - Reagan was clearly going to win primaries in Florida, so I switched my registration to vote in the Democratic primaries, but don't remember who I voted for; 88 - voted for Dole in Republican primary in Florida, 92 in Virgina which was caucuses then so I skipped; 96 supported Alexander, but I think it was over by the time it got to TX -- 00, its over.)

All the protest votes went to the Libertarian Party, if you care to know. My other votes have been all over the board, though I don't recall one for a liberal Democrat (though I have voted for moderate Democrats and some conservatives when they existed).

Which reminds me of a disgusting situation turned on its ear. In 1996, a candidate for a House seat visited our church in a obvious attempt for support (this is a church of some 2000 at the time). Our preacher Gary introduced him, lauded him for his support for socially conservative viewpoints, then (just as my stomach was sickening with the stench of this happening in a Sunday morning worship service, regardless of where he stood) Gary mentioned that the scripture was full of passages on defending the poor, justice, etc, much more mentioned than those social conservative viewpoints. He challenged him to champion fairness and initiatives that would be catalysts for helping the poor, esp widows and orphans.

BTW: In the March 6 issue of Barron's, gadfly economist Alan Abelson makes a seemingly preposterous assertion, then goes on to consider its merits: "Crude conspiracy. That's what's behind the spectacular rise in oil prices. And that's why we poor suckers are paying over $2 for a gallon of heating oil and soon will be paying that much for gasoline. Oh, we know it sounds like another of those nutty notions cooked up by weirdos wearing beanie caps crowned by little whirling propellers. But trust us, it's the truth! The wonder is, it's so darned obvious, how in the world has it escaped exposure? Who are the conspirators? We won't beat around the bush -- especially since George W. happens to be one of them. The others: Alan Greenspan and the born-again cartel known as OPEC. Far-fetched? Perhaps. Logical? You bet."

With respect to Bush's part in the "conspiracy," Abelsoon conjectures that OPEC's " movers and sheikers owe his dad for saving their skins (and their billions) back in '91." (For confirmation of the Bush influence in the Middle East, see Elizabeth Mitchell's description in "W: Revenge of the Bush Dynasty," 262.) And what Bush will get out of it is obvious, according to Abelson, an incensed electorate who will blame their exorbitant gas and oil costs on the Clinton-Gore administration, earning Bush valuable votes in November.

--- Far-fetched? Yes. Logical? Yep. [ How do you make a tongue in cheek smiley face? ]

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Is the Mafia, the Pope and the Trilateral Commission in on this? :P

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Whew!

The 'Unity' in here is stifling! ;-) ;-)

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Pray for your leaders; obey your laws; pay your taxes.

That's all that is REQUIRED of a Christian. (My opinion, since it is not in quotes.)

It is opinion, but it is based on Scripture. Can you show me the verse which says, "Vote"? We won't have Godly government until the Millennium. (Date unknown.) The one who is in charge of all governments is the prince of the power of the air.

By the way, I am working on my response to the 'Restoration' thread, but I'm taking a break.

I will probably start typing around 9:00 P.M., but it probably won't be posted until much later; whenever I can get onto the Internet.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

...And what does the LORD require of you?

"To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8

Notice the quotes.

In Him,

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

...there's somewhere in here where it say (paraphrased) that God put these men (leaders) in authority over us and that we are to obey them. Wouldn't that be the same as God ordaining them?

I'm still looking!!!

In Him,

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Romans 13:1-7:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

To which I might add, "If a vote, then vote!" After all our forefathers have done for us, I think we owe them at least that!]

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

John:

I agree that they rule with God's direct Will. But none of them are going to solve our problems.

And I've found something with which I agree with Danny. And I am going to vote this time, because of the Supreme Court appointments and abortions. In fact , Christians would be foolish not to vote this time, but it is not REQUIRED in the N.T.

But I have no illusions that any of them will be able to keep their promises.

Just because God ordains our rulers doesn't mean they are Godly, and what better example than the president now in office - - the false Christian. The one who gives Christianity a bad name.

And I've been interested in politics since the 50s. I just that no longer have any illusions.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

Just weighing in - Danny's absolutely right. Gore will bring nothing but more decline in our country's moral stances. Between Buddhist monks and his all-out run from Christian principles, Gore has nothing to offer a Christian, in my opinion.

So I guess I'm wondering - besides obviously disliking Bush, why would you vote for a third party candidate? (And I read that to mean that you're waiting for McCain to make up his mind.) In 1992, Perot deflected too many votes from Bush Sr. to win, so we wound up with the Bill and Al circus. Voting for a third-party candidate again, particularly in the case of McCain, would simply repeat history. No third-party candidate is strong enough to win, so why vote for one? You might as well vote for Gore if you do.

Sure, I would have liked to see Alan Keyes get more recognition. I'll cheer like crazy for any person who uses his final two minutes of debate to pray, which Alan did unabashedly. What audacity and backbone! But even if Alan went third-party, Bush would still get my vote. And actually Mark, your site gave me another good reason why: "One doctrine of which Bush is certain is that heaven is open only to those who accept Jesus Christ."

You wouldn't hear that coming from Al Gore's lips. Except for when he drops the hammer on his foot, I'm not sure he utters the name of Jesus Christ.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

"Keep their promises"............

What do keeping promises and modern politicians have in common........nothing. Papa Bush was a liar and I'm sure G.W. doesn't fall far from the tree either.

But within our current system, he has now become the only viable hope for a least a partial change. Hopefully he will be able to take at least some "baby steps" towards changing some things in this country. Meanwhile, the majority of the work that needs to be done is in our hands. A nation cannot legislate morality, but a preacher can darn sure preach it and teach from the pulpit and all who would believe can shout it from the street corners and on the highways and byways.

That may or may not work (only time will tell), but I'll tell you what - when the Lord turns His judgment upon the USA for its sins, He won't have to ask you, "why didn't you do something".

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2000

I just received this in the mail. This is an excerpt from George W. Bush's book, "A Charge To Keep." Do you honestly think you will ever hear Gore saying anything remotely like this?

---

"Actually , the seeds of my decision had been planted the year before, by the Reverend Billy Graham. He visited my family for a summer weekend in Maine. I saw him preach at the small summer church, St.Ann's by the Sea. We all had lunch on the patio overlooking the ocean. One evening my dad asked Billy to answer questions from a big group of family gathered for the weekend. He sat by the fire and talked. And what he said sparked a change in my heart. I don't remember the exact words. It was more the power of his example. The Lord was so clearly reflected in his gentle and loving demeanor. The next day we walked and talked at Walker's Point, and I knew I was in the presence of a great man. He was like a magnet; I felt drawn to seek something different. He didn't lecture or admonish; he shared warmth and concern. Billy Graham didn't make you feel guilty; he made you feel loved.

Over the course of that weekend, Reverend Graham planted a mustard seed in my soul, a seed that grew over the next year. He led me to the path, and I began walking. And it was the beginning of a change in my life. I had always been a religious person, had regularly attended church, even taught Sunday school and served as an altar boy. But that weekend my faith took on a new meaning. It was the beginning of a new walk where I would recommit my heart to Jesus Christ.

I was humbled to learn that God sent His Son to die for a sinner like me. I was comforted to know that through the Son, I could find God's amazing grace, a grace that crosses every border, every barrier and is open to everyone. Through the love of Christ's life, I could understand the life-changing powers of faith.

When I returned to Midland, I began reading the Bible regularly. Don Evans talked me into joining him and another friend, Don Jones, at a men's community Bible study. The group had first assembled the year before, in spring of 1984, at the beginning of the downturn in the energy industry. Midland was hurting. A lot of people were looking for comfort and strength and direction. A couple of men started the Bible study as a support group, and it grew. By the time I began attending, in the fall of 1985, almost 120 men would gather. We met in small discussion groups of ten or twelve, then joined the larger group for full meetings. Don Jones picked me up every week for the meetings. I remember looking forward to them. My interest in reading the Bible grew stronger and stronger, and the words became clearer and more meaningful.

We studied Acts, the story of the Apostles building the Christian Church, and next year, the Gospel of Luke. The preparation for each meeting took several hours, reading the Scripture passages and thinking through responses to discussion questions. I took it seriously, with my usual touch of humor....

Laura and I were active members of the First Methodist Church of Midland, and we participated in many family programs, including James Dobson's Focus on the Family series on raising children. As I studied and learned, Scripture took on greater meaning, and gained confidence and understanding in my faith. I read the Bible regularly. Don Evans gave me the "one-year" Bible, a Bible divided into 365 daily readings, each one including a section from the New Testament, the Old Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs. I read through that Bible every other year. During the years in between, I pick different chapters to study at different times. I have also learned the power of prayer. I pray for guidance. I do not pray for earthly things, but for heavenly things, for wisdom and patience and understanding.

My faith gives me focus and perspective. It teaches humility. But I also recognize that faith can be misinterpreted in the political process. Faith is an important part of my life. I believe it is important to live my faith, not flaunt it.

America is a great country because of our religious freedoms. It is important for any leader to respect the faith of others. That point was driven home when Laura and I visited Israel in 1998. We had traveled to Rome to spend Thanksgiving with our daughter, who was attending a school program there, and spent three days in Israel on the way home. It was an incredible experience. I remember waking up at the Jerusalem Hilton and opening the curtains and seeing the Old City before us, the Jerusalem stone glowing gold. We visited the Western Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And we went to the Sea of Galilee and stood atop the hill where Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount. It was an overwhelming feeling to stand in the spot where the most famous speech in the history of the world was delivered, the spot where Jesus outlined the character and conduct of a believer and gave his disciples and the world the beatitudes, the golden rule, and the Lord's Prayer.

Our delegation included four gentile governors-one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon-and several Jewish-American friends. Someone suggested we read Scripture. I chose to read "Amazing Grace," my favorite hymn.

Later that night we all gathered at a restaurant in Tel Aviv for dinner before we boarded our middle-of-night flight back to America. We talked about the wonderful experiences and thanked the guides and government officials who had introduced us to their country. And toward the end of the meal, one of our friends rose to share a story, to tell us how he, a gentile, and his friend, a Jew, had (unbeknownst to the rest of us) walked down to the Sea of Galilee, joined hands underwater, and prayed together, on bended knee. Then out of his mouth came a hymn he had known as a child, a hymn he hadn't thought about in years. He got every word right: Now is the time approaching, by prophets long foretold, when all shall dwell together, One Shepherd and one fold. Now Jew and gentile, meeting, from many a distant shore, around an altar kneeling, one common Lord adore.

Faith changes lives. I know, because faith has changed mine."

"I could not be governor if I did not believe in a divine plan that supersedes all human plans. Politics is a fickle business. Polls change. Today's friend is tomorrow's adversary. People lavish praise and attention. Many times it is genuine; sometimes it is not. Yet I build my life on a foundation that will not shift. My faith frees me. Frees me to put the problem of the moment in proper perspective. Frees me to make decisions that others might not like. Frees me to try to do the right thing, even though it may not poll well..."

"The death penalty is a difficult issue for supporters as well as its opponents. I have a reverence for life; my faith teaches that life is a gift from our Creator. In a perfect world, life is given by God and only taken by God. I hope someday our society will respect life, the full spectrum of life, from the unborn to the elderly. I hope someday unborn children will be protected by law and welcomed in life. I support the death penalty because I believe, if administered swiftly and justly, capital punishment is a deterrent against future violence and will save other innocent lives. Some advocates of life will challenge why I oppose abortion yet support the death penalty; to me, it's the difference between innocence and guilt."

" Today, two weeks after Jeb's inauguration, in the church in downtown Austin, the pastor Mark Craig was telling me that my reelection as the first Governor to win back-to-back four-year terms in the history of the >state of Texas was a beginning, not an end.... People are starved for faithfulness. He talked of the need for honesty in government; he warned that leaders who cheat on their wives will cheat their country, will cheat their colleagues, will cheat themselves. The minister said that America is starved for honest leaders. He told the story of Moses, asked by God to lead his people to a land of milk and honey. Moses had a lot of reasons to shirk the task. As the pastor told it, Moses' basic reaction was, "Sorry, God, I'm busy. I've got a family. I've got sheep to tend. I've got a life". "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt?" The people won't believe me, he protested. I'm not a very good speaker. "Oh, my Lord, send, I pray, some other person," Moses pleaded. But God did not, and Moses ultimately did his bidding, leading his people through forty years of wilderness and wandering, relying on God for strength and direction and inspiration. People are "starved for leadership," Pastor Craig said,"starved for leaders who have ethical and moral courage." It is not enough to have an ethical compass to know right from wrong, he argued. America needs leaders who have the moral courage to do what is right for the right reason. It's not always easy or convenient for leaders to step forward, he acknowledged; remember, even Moses had doubts. "He was talking to you," my mother later said. The pastor was, of course, talking to all of us, challenging each one of us to make the most of our lives, to assume the mantle of leadership and responsibility wherever we find it. He was calling on us to use whatever power we have, in business, in politics, in our communities, and in our families, to do good for the right reason. And the sermon spoke directly to my heart and my life."...

"There was no magic moment of decision. After talking with my family during the Christmas holidays, then hearing the rousing sermon to make most of every moment during my inaugural church service, I gradually felt more comfortable with the prospect of a presidential campaign. My family would love me, my faith would sustain me, no matter what."...

"During the more than half century of my life, we have seen an unprecedented decay in our American culture, a decay that has eroded the foundations of our collective values and moral standards of conduct. Our sense of personal responsibility has declined dramatically, just as the role and responsibility of the federal government have increased. The changing culture blurred the sharp contrast between right and wrong and created a new standard of conduct: "If it feels good, do it." and "If you've got a problem, blame somebody else." Individuals are not responsible for their actions, the new culture said, we are all victims of forces beyond our control. We went from a culture of sacrifice and saving to a culture obsessed with grabbing all the gusto. We went from accepting responsibility to assigning blame. As government did more and more, individuals were required to do less and less. The new culture said if people were poor, the government should feed them. If someone had no house, the government should provide one. If criminals are not responsible for their acts, then the answers are not prisons, but social programs.".....

"For our culture to change, it must change one heart, one soul, and one conscience at a time. Government can spend money, but it cannot put hope in our hearts or a sense of purpose in our lives."...

"But government should welcome the active involvement of people who are following a religious imperative to love their neighbors through after-school programs, child care, drug treatment, maternity group homes, and a range of other services. Supporting these men and women-the soldiers in the armies of compassion- is the next bold step of welfare reform, because I know that changing hearts will change our entire society."

"During the opening months of my presidential campaign, I have traveled our country and my heart has been warmed. My experiences have reinvigorated my faith in the greatness of Americans. They have reminded me that societies are renewed from the bottom up, not the top down. Everywhere I go, I see people of love and faith, taking time to help a neighbor in need... These people and thousands like them are the heart and soul and greatness of America. And I want to do my part. I am running for President because I believe America must seize this moment, America must lead. We must give our prosperity a greater purpose, a purpose of peace and freedom and hope. We are a great nation of good and loving people. And together, we have a charge to keep."

-- Anonymous, March 11, 2000

Wow... thanks, John, for letting us read that. And you're absolutely right - that would never come from the lips of Al Gore.

Time for intercession. I pray that God provide us a Christian leader who will be the very instrument of His will.

-- Anonymous, March 11, 2000

Hey wait a minute... I must defend Al Gore.

Does anybody remember the recent news story where he quoted Scripture?

This is true: He said something to the effect of: "...Yes I am very familiar with that beloved passage in John 16:3.

Of course he meant John 3:16.

The real Freudian slip though is found when you read the passage found in John 16:3....

"And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me."

-- Anonymous, March 12, 2000

As you know, I sent all of you the Bible Lessons for the class 'Tehnology in Prophecy'.

I would like to share with you something one of our class members shared with us today.

One of the gals (she is a Medical Doctor) told us about a miraculous event which happened at the luncheon for Geoge W. Bush the day before the primary here in Michgan.

Before she left for the luncheon, she was hurriedly finishing tasks for the home-schooling she also does. She had to go to her library to get some information for the next day's classes and noticed Charles Miller's book, (an unused copy - she's buys them 10 at a time and gives one to whoever will take one) on the shelf next to the book she needed.

She was prompted to take it to the luncheon with the thought of giving it to someone (a Secret Service Agent) to give to G.W. She sort of resisted the impulse, thinking perhaps she was mistaken in feeling it was from God.

But she decided to take it, with the thought that if it was from God, He would bring it about.

One absolutely unbelievable thing after another occurred, including their being late and getting caught in a kind of scary crush of people waiting for George. They got to their table and got seated and immediately she noticed a Secret Service Agent whom she was able to ask if she could give GW something. She forgot her camera, and left it at the table, but her intent was not to get a picture, anyway.

But for some reason, after asking whether she could see him and the Agent motioned her to go with a group who were waiting nearby, she was able to hurry and get her camera.

The Agents took everything anyone was carrying and checked them. All she had was the book and camera. They gave them back and directed the waiting people to a place to wait. Polly saw GW acoss an empty ballroom and even though she later thought it was foolish, crossed it directly to him.

No one stopped her! She later thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to do. When she got within 10 feet of him, he motioned her to hurry so that she could get a picture. (There were several Secret Service Agents, or perhaps personal guards near him, but they allowed her to advance. GW told one of them to get a picture, and she said: "But I don't want a picture!" Surprised, he said: "Then what do you want?"

And she said: "I want to give you this book!" And he said: "Oh, O.K." She had written a little bit on the bookmark concerning the contents of the book, and said: "Now be sure to read it!" LOL!!! <

She didn't laugh then, but she did when she told us. He seriously said he would be sure to read it.

We all feel that this is something we will continually pray for, and feel that God had a definite purpose in all of this.

The information in this book (all free on the Internet) is mind- boggling. It gives descriptions of those things people have always wondered about which seemed to be metal or strange vehicles. You don't have to agree with him, but his insight and vision as a result of wanting to reach his (doubting) fellow college students of the 60s for Christ.

That WAS a particularly restless time in our history when the Civil Rights movement, the Viet Nam war, Roe vs. Wade, and all of those sociological upheavals of those years.

As an aside: Does anyone remember how Roe vs, Wade was decided? The voters in 47 states voted down abortion, but ONE MAN'S VOTE on the Supreme Court made 'choice' law.

Christians were almost in shock that it could have been made law with an actual minrity of voters approving it.

Roosevelt (who my parents voted for - my dad only once; then for Norman Thomas - a Socialist) had packed the Supreme Court with liberals abnd leftists.

Don't let things you are so sure of, like prophecy, be a stumbling block to making a study of this material. If you disagree with it, fine. It is information which every Christian should have.

In Christ,

www.tip.org

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

Duane;

I hate to burst your bubble, but that "quotation" is merely a rumor, an urban legend. It never really happened. Go to Snopes.com, an urban legend watchdog site, for the whole scoop on it. I wanted to believe this one myself, alas.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

I must be tired. I left two sentences unfinished.

Bottom: Page 11

'...for Christ is something all of us should do.'

Top: Page12

'...sociological upheavals of those years made for tense times (if one didn't have 'the peace which passes all understanding)'.

sp: minority

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

John:

I mentioned an urban legend on the 'Restoration' thread before I read your post here. Strange.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

Oh, I hope we don't burn out on this issue too quickly. We still have almost 8 months to go before we have to hold our noses as we go into the voting booth.

I don't know if this is just a local discussion prompted by our paper, or a full national debate (I really have seen only a little of it in national media), but there is an interesting issue of what to do with the budget surpluses. There is a huge federal debt still, even if the deficit is, on paper, gone (actually, there is a huge surplus of Social Security taxes overwhelming the remaining deficit spending). Some (myself in that category) would say that we should not increase spending or cut taxes (though I support taking advantage of this time to reform taxes), but rather let's pay down the debt. Spending advocates that are viable are basically looking to spend in areas that are "investments" -- research, infrastructure. Tax cutters are basically saying, give the money back to the people. Debt payers are saying that the debt is an obligation, that freeing the supply of money available to be borrowed is just as much economic catalyst, and that reducing interest payments is in the country's long term interests.

This election could be more historic than it is so far. It could have been (and still may be) a referundum on what to do with the "surplus". You almost need a third party candidate to represent that third viewpoint.

Too bad our two choices seem to be between a tax cutter and an "investor"/spender.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

I am prepared for that eventuality.


-- Anonymous, March 15, 2000

Incidentally (funny this topic should come up), Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji openly threatened war with Taiwan today.

Got rice?

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2000

Speaking of the crime of treason :

I just received a letter (title of letter is: 'A Threat to our National Security' ~ no date; came today) from 'Judicial Watch', on page three states:

2nd paragraph:

Here's what the Chinese Defense Minister, Chi Haotin, said at a military conference back in December (he was quoted in Hong Kong's Ching Ming newspaper): "Seen from changes in the world situation and the United Staes' hegemonic strategy for creating monopolarity, war is inevitable. We cannot avoid it. The issue is that the Chinese armed forces must control the initiative in the war....We must be prepared to fight for one year, two years, three years or even longer."

The Defense Minister is not talking about war with Taiwan or South Korea. HE IS TALKING ABOUT WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES.

The first paragraph in this letter states:

back during the waning days of Decmber, when others were enjoying their Christmas vacations and excitement was building around the world for the arrival of the year 2000, Judicial Watch lawyers were hard at work here in Washington, filing applications for temporary restraining orders to block the handover of the Panama canal by the United Staes.

You can access this site at:

http://www.JudicialWatch.org

Yesterday one came concerning lawsuits surrounding the Clinton Administration. They are the ones who handled various lawsuits in the scandals, on the anti-Clinton side.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2000

Ostracism ~ Among the Quakers or Shakers, I think they call that 'shunning'. I call it 'infantile'.

I detect that I am the only woman who shows up around here for the most part, and occasionally Jenny, except for Nelta, who shows up occasionally to apologize, and then is rebuffed again.

Strange, since 'there is no more Jew nor Greek, slave or free, male nor female, but we are one in Christ Jesus...'

Come on, fellas, this is not church, it's a public discussion forum.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Connie, Again you are wrong. Let me list just some of the female contributors, lest you choose to play the gender card as Nelta did. Kathy Coombs, Theresa Schwingel, D. Lee Muse, Elaine Seavey. That is just the few that come to mind. I know there have been more. I can't speak for the other ladies but for me, my guy and men like Lee, Sam, Mark Whiz, Scott, Michael and others do quite well on their own. We are quite free to contribute and speak our minds but why, when these guys do such a fine job? I prefer to sit and observe and listen. You learn more that way. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread but again we are having to set the issue aside to deal with a diversion. Which Satan loves, to keep the real issues hidden. Connie, the gender card didn't work with Nelta, it won't work with you. If you want to participate then do so but keep the gender card out of it. It is embarrassing to me as a woman. In other words, "if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch." I am perfectly happy to stay on the porch most of the time and you are more than welcome to sit with me. If not, enjoy your debate but quit whining about being ignored. Quite frankly the guys have been more patient and debated with you more than I would. I suppose that is why it is best I stay on the porch.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Hello, Elaine Seavey,

I am happy if you are here.

In Our Savior

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Ostracism ~ Among the Quakers or Shakers, I think they call that 'shunning'. I call it 'infantile'.

Connie... help me out on this one..

What are you referring to?

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Duane:

At least twice (I think on this thread when Nelta said she was 'giving it up' 'back?') no one answered her for while, and I thought she might feel bad, so I responded; and I had at least two which no one responded to until I mentioned it.

It is a tactic people sometimes use. If I have misspoken, I am sorry, but it seems very much that way to me.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Duane:

At least twice (I think on this thread when Nelta said she was 'giving it up' 'back?') no one answered here for while, and I thought she might feel bad, so I responded; and I had at least two which no one responded to until I mentioned it.

It is a tactic people sometimes use. If I have misspoken, I am sorry, but it seems very much that way to me.

Hope this doesn't post twice.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Connie:

and I had at least two which no one responded to until I mentioned it.

It is a tactic people sometimes use. If I have misspoken, I am sorry, but it seems very much that way to me.

I can't help you out on this one, darlin'. I can think right away of at least 6 different questions I asked of you directly, about important points being discussed. I think you answered one, maybe two of them.

No problem, tho. People get caught up in parts of conversations and threads, and other bits get ignored or overlooked. And, often, I will see something that I want to respond to, but at the moment just don't have the energy required to do so properly and completely, and by the time I get back to it, it's well gone past.

perhaps you might not assume that not being answered directly means intentionial neglect.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Sam, I will have to look back and find your questions. I didn't intentionally not answer them. Lee was keeping me occupied, and I was trying to answer, but finally gave up, because I discovered it would take non-stop posting for a couple of weeks. And then there would be a whole steam of new comments. I just gave up, 'cause there's no pleasing some.

What I was referring to was especially Nelta's, where she was 'Giving it up' ~ the forum ~ and no one answered her for two days; so I did.

I don't believe in intentionally hurting someone, and ignoring a farewell is hurtful.

I had a couple, too, but eventually, after two or three days, someone finally answered.

I wasn't hurt, but I was afraid Nelta might be.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2000