<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The Fishermen

There was a group called 'The Fisherman's Fellowship.' They were surrounded by streams and lakes full of hungry fish. They met regularly to discuss the call to fish, and the thrill of catching fish. They got excited about fishing!! Someone suggested that they needed a philosophy of fishing, so they carefully defined and redefined fishing, and the purpose of fishing. They developed fishing strategies and tactics. Then they realized that they had been going at it backwards. They had approached fishing from the point of view of the fisherman, and not from the point of view of the fish. How do fish view the world? How does the fisherman appear to the fish? What do fish eat, and when? These are all good things to know. So they began research studies, and attended conferences on fishing. Some traveled to far away places to study different kinds of fish, with different habits. Some got PhD's in fishology. But no one had yet gone fishing. So a committee was formed to send out fishermen. As prospective fishing places outnumbered fishermen, the committee needed to determine priorities. A priority list of fishing places was posted on bulletin boards in all of the fellowship halls. But still, no one was fishing. A survey wa launched, to find out whyb

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2000

Answers

*Yawn*

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2000

This "parable" is a good analogy, but it's also a very old and somewhat overworked one. Is there anyone in this group that hasn't already heard it a dozen or so times before?

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2000

Well, Ben, I never had heard it before and I have been around a while.

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2000

Sorry, Nelta. It is a good "parable", and if some haven't heard it, it's good that they do. But in the circles in which I have spent much of my time when I've been in the U.S. -- missions conferences, Bible colleges, mission camps, etc. -- it (and variations, with various other activities/occupations in place of fisherman) is quite common. I guess I assumed that since this forum seems to include so many evangelists, preachers, etc., that they would have heard it as often as I have. My apologies to you and to the rest of the group if I made an unjustified assumption.

Benjamin Rees, Hong Kong

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2000

Nelta:

I see that you are STILL HIDING. In your thread entitled "Lee on Hiding" you claim that you are not hiding. But here you are telling overworked "parables" instead of reponding to the things that I have said to you in numerous post. You are still hiding from the sins you have committed in this forum for which I have many times proven that you are guilty of having committed. At a time when you need to either repent of these sins or prove that we are wrong in accusing you of them you run from your responsibility to answer those who have challenged your false doctrines, lies, and slanders against your brother, Danny Gabbard, in this forum.

You started the thread which you entitled "Lee on Hiding" I responded to you and you, as is your habit, ran away and are now hiding behind the writing of overworked, boring, and useless "parables" instead of facing the reality that you have unfinished business in this forum in that you have sinned before God and everyone in this forum and have been admonished several times to repent of these sins which we have shown conclusively that you are guilty of having committed. So, once again, we find that you are still hiding in the shadows of darkness and "sniping" at the truth of God at every opportunity. Repent Nelta, for your very soul is in jeapordy. The Scriptures tell us that "all liars shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone". And those who loveth and maketh a lie are left outside the city of God. I urge you to repent of your lies against brother Danny in this forum and your deceptions and lies that are contrary to the word of God concerning the authority of the faithful shepherds and overseers in the Church. "Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have a right to come to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Without are dogs,and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, AND EVERYONE THAT LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE." (Rev. 22:14,15. You have made a lie in this forum concerning your brother in Christ, Danny Gabbard, when you falsely accused him of "having something against women". You have also taught a lie that the "elders" in the church are nothing more than the older people in the church and that there is no Greek word for "authority" in the church. Thus you rebel against the scripturally constituted leaders in the church. These are lies which you have deliberately told against your brother Danny and false doctrine against the elders in the church who "watch for our souls as those who must give account". You love these LIES because you continue to refuse to even attempt to deal with those who have constantly called upon you to answer their arguments from the word of God that clearly show that you have taught contrary to the truth and your lie against brother Danny was so apparent that the entire forum comdemned it. Yet you remain "stiffnecked and uncircumsized in heart and ears" and resist the teaching of the Holy Spirit in His inspired word to turn from such evil.

Your quaint little "parables" and "plays" which attempt to push your "neo-orthodox" agenda and paint the entire class of "elders" or "overseers" in the church as nothing more than "power hungry imbicles" in order, not to correct only those who may be in error but rather to cast a cloud of suspicion and create a false perception that the "elders" in the church are all such pathetic characters as those which you depict in your plays. Not once have you ever attempted to depict in any of you absurd "plays" any group of elders going about faithfully serving God and overseeing the "flock of God which is among them" and faithfully obeying the "chief Shepherd" in their divinely appointed responsibility of "watching for our souls". The reason that you fail to depict such things, which are constantly happening among the faithful elders in the body of Christ throughout the entire world, is because you are not merely against those who have SINNED but rather you are against God's appointed AUTHORITY in the church. You do not believe that there should be a "post of oversight" in the church. It is the office of the elders that you are against. You do not care if that "post of oversight" is filled by faithful MEN or not. You want to remove that "post of oversight" entirely. These are the lies that you LOVE and refuse to repent of telling.

Your deliberate lies against Brother Danny, wherein you accused him of "having something against women" and your bitter and angry false accusation that he was, as you said in the same place that you accused him falsely of "having something against women", " A COWARD". Now you offered no evidence to show that these accusations were true. We have challenged you constantly to either show that these accusations you have made are true or repent of having LIED. But as we can all clearly see, YOU ARE STILL HIDING.

I pray that you will come out of HIDING and that you will repent of your sin against your brother and your rebellion against the sheperds of God's people on this earth.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2000

The flaw of the parable, and the flaw of many "fishers", is that those fish slip right back out. In Florida several years ago, there was a church in Gainesville that was similar in many ways to the one I was at in Tallahassee at the time. We heard from many misinformed people about the "300 baptisms" this other church was having annually, and wondered why we couldn't do the same. Well, guess how big this other church was at the time. 1000. How big was it the previous year? 1000. Two years previous? 1000. You had to go back 5 years to find any "bottom line" growth in size of their congregation. Now, certainly, some of the people were moving away, but how many churches in a non-military area have 30% leaving annually because they moved out of the area? Until we do better about turning the fish to fisherman, we will continue to "lose ground". Let me put it another way. Some fisherman catch many per year. Let's say a "productive" one catches 12 per year, but the fisherman doesn't equip the fish to be fisherman. Let's say another fisherman catches one per year, but trains up that fish to be a fisherman in one year's time, and the new fisherman similar trains his catch. At the end of one year, the 12 per year fisherman, Al, results in 12 for the kingdom. The one per year, Bob, has added one. At the end of year 2, Al has added 24, Bob has added two + one of his catch has added one, for a total of 3 due to Bob's efforts. Continuing: Year Al Bob

1 12 1

2 24 3

3 36 7

4 48 15

5 60 31

6 72 63

7 84 127

8 96 255

9 108 511

10 120 1023

11 132 2047

After 20 years, Bob's efforts result in more than 1 million, Al's 240. After 30 years, Bob's efforts exceed 1 billion (ok, if no one died -- admittedly idealized cases here). Al has touched 360. After 33 years, Bob's method has reached a number greater than the current population of the world. Al -- 396. If 100,000 evangelists used Al's style, we wouldn't even reach the entire population of California in that time. Stop putting those fish in the aquariums!

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2000

A good thought, Mark. The training to maturity will bring about workers in the kingdom. Putting them in the aqu. (?) ISTM is the same as bringing an infant home from the hospital and showing him the refrig.

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2000

Nelta,

Good one!

Lest we forget the Hunters.

(Jer 16:15 KJV) "But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."

(Jer 16:16 KJV) "Behold, I will send for many FISHERS, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many HUNTERS, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks."

(Jer 16:17 KJV) "For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes."

Maybe the time for HUNTING has arrived? You know, get out the BIG GUN, We need STRONG MEAT.

(Heb 5:14 KJV) "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

(Heb 6:1 KJV) "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"

(Heb 6:2 KJV) "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

A side note: (Prov 26:4 KJV) "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

(Prov 26:5 KJV) "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

In other words don't bother talking to someone who keeps riding you with endless words about how bad you are.

We all have mirrors.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2000