Went to the store today. Lettuce and grapes shipped thousands of miles, prices all the same. Meat from the midwest, all the same. Everything still the same. When does the fuel price spike change the store prices? Is my budget in the black until bubble.com bursts?

-- mommy (on@a.budget), February 05, 2000

Answers

Mommy, don't know if you took the bus or drove a car to the market but in my area I am paying about 57% more for gasoline than I did a year ago.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), February 05, 2000.

Inflation started months ago when the fiat currency supply was increased. Prices of commodities follow the inflationary flow. Expect more increases in the weeks ahead...

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 05, 2000.

First the state of depression that has been in existance in much of the third world for many years, cheap inports has done much to hold our inflation rate down. Secondly many basic items have been dropped from the basket used to caculate our inflation rate. The price of cars and I think maybe also homes and taxes. Maybe someone can give a better list of these items.

The real serious inflation that has taken place in the 90's has been massive asset inflation. Stocks and real estate in trendy areas and many areas not so trendy.

Inflation is an increase in the money supply relative the the amount of goods available for purchase. Most of the excessive money supply has gone in the hands of a small percent of the population. These folks are not going to eat more because they have excess money. Instead they buy more stocks, a bigger house and a more expensive car.

The inflation you are looking for is not there yet. That will happen when people in large numbers realize that we in fact do have inflation and they seek to protect themselves from it. Hoarding of supplies for future use. Goods in hand are worth more than the money in the pocket book that buys them. This change in public perception can happen very quickly and taken to an extreme, government lies will no longer be believed and the destruction of the dollar can happen in as little as a few weeks or even a few days.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), February 05, 2000.

When you witness increased prices of food and fuel, then inflation has become unleashed. What our government does to control its rise will be too late and too weak to control.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 05, 2000.

Inflation. strictly speaking, is an increase in the money supply. I think that you are referring to a rise in the CPI, when you say "inflation." This is a media device to obscure what the likes of Alan Greenspan is doing to our money supply. We need to be careful of the words we use. Words have mean

-- William Harr (wharr55555@aol.com), February 05, 2000.

Inflation, strictly speaking, is an increase in the money supply. I think that you are referring to a rise in the CPI, when you say "inflation." This is a media device to obscure what the likes of Alan Greenspan is doing to our money supply. We need to be careful of the words we use. Words have mean

-- William Harr (wharr55555@aol.com), February 05, 2000.

mommy, gasoline has increased 12% in one month, propane increased 14% in last two months. Significant increases. Truckers get the food to the markets, they are having to pay more gas also. Someone is going to have to make up the difference, somewhere, sometime. I don't think it will be companies processing and packaging the food. That leaves us and the trucker. Why should the trucker operate at a loss, more sense to keep rig parked

-- 1 2 3 (we@areit.com), February 05, 2000.

Just got back from the grocery store. Average prices are 50% higher than 6 months ago. Greenspin will keep saying there is no inflation because food prices are not included in his brilliant calculations of the CPI (consumer price index). Go figure.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 05, 2000.

Dear Mommy,

I agree with you, but you're probably going to get flamed. You aren't in step with popuar opinion.

There is no sign of inflation at all here in Seattle. I went to our ranch in eastern Washington state on Dec 26th. Gas was $1.27. Today I'm in Seattle and it's still $1.27. (ARCO stations almost everywhere.)

For a year and a half, I've been reading on this forum about how "tomorrow the market's going to tank" and "we're about to have martial law imposed", "all the nuke plants are to melt down"...

If food's the same price, fuel's the same price, cars are the same price, rent's the same price and taxes are the same, there is no inflation...yet.

Who knows about tomorrow?

One thing I have observed. If you just bet against all the predictions on this forum, you'd be rich. :o)

Randers

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), February 05, 2000.

My Dear Randers, the message I posted is the truth where I live. It is not a prediction, it is fact. It has nothing to do with popular opinion of Jack. Maybe you should talk to some of the people in MA who are paying almost twice for heating fuel, than they did last year. Did their income double also? My purpose is not to lie or fright, but only to post the truth in my arena, to possibly, forewarn others.

-- 1 2 3 (we@areit.com), February 05, 2000.

Just because it isn't raining in your backyard doesn't mean the sun is shining on the whole world. I'm very happy for you that your costs for food & gas haven't changed. If the price increases that are happening in MY backyard were happening all over the country... well, I'm just glad to know the sun is still shining somewhere.

BTW, diesel is now at $1.99 at Mobil up the road. Regular unleaded is $1.49. And I went to the market on Thursday. Funny coincidence? 90% of the items on my list (regular staples, etc.) were at least a few cents higher than last week. And yes, I actually do keep track of that kind of stuff. I also clip coupons.

I went down cellar about an hour ago, fetching a jar of clam chowder, and for the fun of it I went over to check the guage on the oil tank. Just below 5/8. Not so bad, except we got a delivery on Jan 28th! Believe me, we wear sweaters, socks and slippers in the house all day, and extra comforters & flannel jammies & socks at night. Hubby has taken to wearing my leggings under his jeans for the extra warmth, just like I do.

Nope. No rain here.

(sorry. metaphor mixing is just a product of it having been a long day and my fingers getting very cold. surprised my spelling hasn't gone completely...)

-- Arewyn (artemis31@msn.com), February 05, 2000.

Randers,

Gasoline in my neck of the woods is now $ 1.319, up from $ 1.239 on December 30, 1999. That is an increase of 6.45% in 37 days, or 63.69% annualized. There is most certainly inflation here. Of course, with the way the money supply has been increased, how could there not be inflation? Oh yes, PRODUCTIVITY GAINS! I almost forgot.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 05, 2000.

Don't worry about Mr. Randers. Despite what he seems to think, Seattle is not the center of the Universe, and inflation IS occurring in many other places, whether or not our government chooses to acknowledge it.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 05, 2000.

mommy- Consider if you will the longer term. Now, everyone's been focusing on shorter term inflation, which is definately there. I also happen to know that the same groceries I purchased in 1996 for approx. $92.00 a week are now costing $148.00 a week. Now by my math, and I could be wrong, that's about 11-12% inflation per annum. Or roughly 3 times what .gov says it is. Whether this is retailer greed or increased costs I have no idea.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), February 05, 2000.

MOM: As with the other who stated their opinions, I must agree with them - However, I think that they only scratched at the surface - The entire Western capitalist economy, to be sure, rests upon goods, services, money supply and other such terms - But, the entire system is built upon the foundation of faith - For example, we all have faith in the sun rising tomorrow - We all have faith that everything we know to exist before we went to bed tonight will exist, for better or for worse, tomorrow - And so on - The point is: If we believe that the present economic system that worked today will work tomorrow, then it will work tomorrow - Inflation,though a relationship between the money supply and goods and services, which is certainly an economic truth, rests upon how much faith people have in the marketplace - The gentleman, who spoke about perceptions, is absolutely correct - If we perceive things to be allright, then we have faith in the system - The movement of prices in relation to goods and services is a "testament" to our faith in the present relationship and in the system - If, for example, our belief is that the relationship is not sound, then our faith in the present system will be shaken - Consequently, people will take measures that may prove to be inimical to the vested interests, as a whole - As such, yoou will begin to see panic buying, long lines for gasoline, mobs at food stores etc. - My recommendation is to sit tight, prep, and believe in the economic system that got you your standard of living, which, by the way, is better than 90% of the people on this planet -

-- Bob (bmoss3@prodigy.net), February 06, 2000.

Why didn't I think of that before? Faith is the answer!!! Paging Oral and Benny.....please lay your hands on the market soon!

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 06, 2000.

LOL Kyle! I can't get past Binney's hair fix. Our choice, where to put faith, material or spiritual.

-- 1 2 3 (we@areit.com), February 06, 2000.

I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH MON. BUT OTHERS HERE WHO ARE SAYING THAT WE HAVE INFLATION BECAUSE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE OR BREAD IS HIGHER NOW THAN IT WAS LAST WEEK OR LAST MONTH HAVE'NT PROVED THEIR POINT. USING THOSE AS EXAMPLES MAKES ABOUT AS MUCH SENSE AS TRYING TO GAUGE INFLATION BY THE PRICE OF AIRLINE TICKETS. WHICH GOES UP OR DOWN DEPENDING ON WHETHER IT IS A HOLIDAY OR THE PEAK TRVEL SEASON. I BELIEVE IN INFALTION, I JUST THINK IT IS ABOUT 3 OR 4 PERCENT A YEAR AT PRESENT. WILL IT JUMP SKY HIGH IN THE NEAR FUTURE? PROBABLY. WHEN WILL THAT BE? WHO KNOWS, IF WE KNEW THAT THEN WE COULD ALL MAKE A KILLING IN THE STOCK MARKET.

-- TERRY MILLS (amills@rabbittbrush.com), February 06, 2000.

No inlfation. expand your horizon past a single week. Looking at the prices last night, most boxed and processed foods are more expensive this year than last. Sure there are the occasional sales but they couldn't get people to buy 12 Cokes at 2.79 last year now the sale price is 3.00 or even better 3 for 9.00.

Throw a frog in boiling water he jumps out, slowly raise the temp and he just hangs around until cooked, Stick a fork in us all we are cooked.

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), February 06, 2000.

Also consider the quantity of an item that you might purchase for the *same" price. In the case of vitamins, they add more cotton "stuffing" to the bottle, and less pills, but have the same price. Have you opened a bag of potato chips lately? (Hint: Let the chips settle, they fill less than 1/3 of a bag.)

Also, keep an eye out for package changes - new designs may camouflage that there is less (per ounce) in the new package than in the older style.

There's your inflation, hidden, but still there.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), February 06, 2000.