HI, all, Needing a little helpful advice about my seemingly sick buck. He's a one year old Nubian. Had him about 2 months. I am very new to goats,btw. Has plenty of clean water every day. Alfalfa and prairie hay to eat. About a week ago began feed "goat feed" from a little feed store nearly (small green pellets). My son cares for this buck and two does which are separated from the buck across the barn (soon to be in another barn). Does seem to be fine ( and soon to "kid" ). However, the buck didn't rise when we entered the barn last night for some work. Usually VERY active and voices his desire for attention continually. Now very passive and lying down often. Today, my son reports a hollowing in pelvic area (maybe), no interest in the pellet food, and still lots of lying down. Also hanging head and high pitched whining sound. Usually very interested in all his food. He has plenty of hay to lie in for some warmth, but the temp this week has fallen from the 40s to around 10 degrees over night. Could he have worms in this temp? Thank you for the good advice I am about to receive. You're a good group of folks. Scout

-- Scout (scout@kanokla.net), January 31, 2000

Answers

Doesn't sound like worms to me, although he may have a few, these are not the usual symptoms.How long has he been seperated from the does? What does the new goat feed contain? How much of it are you feeding him? I would put him back in with the does unless he is vicious or violent with them. Nubians are not very hardy and he may not be staying warm enough all by himself. Or you could get him a sheep or a meat wether to keep him company. I hate to say this, but it sounds to me like he might have enterotoxemia. I had a buck die from that last year, and they go really quickly, within a day or two, if they don't receive immediate veterinary care,in which case thay can sometimes be saved if you have him treated right away. If he is a registered buck and he's worth something to you, I'd get him to the vet pronto. Enterotoxemia is one of the nastiest ways I can think of for a goat to die, besides being ripped apart by dogs.They just lay there and cry and scream in pain for hours.Does he have normal stools? Entertoxemia gives them diarrhea. Also, if his tongue is cold, that is another symptom. If you think that is what he has, you need to hurry,so that the vet can give him the antitoxin. If he has it and you don't want to take him to the vet, it would be kindest to end his suffering now, because it is terrible and if left untreated,he will die if he has it. Also check if the rumen,(feel his left side) feels like a balloon full of air instead of full of hay, like the does will feel.That is how our buck was before he died.You don't needto worry,the disease is not contagious to the does, it is caused by a sudden change in feed or overeating.The bacteria is everywhere but only multiplies to the point of sickness when they get too much to eat or sometimes when they are stressed.There is a vaccine that you can give the does so their kids don't get it, because kids are even more susceptible. You need to give it to the does while they are pregnant.Hope this helps, let us know how it turns out.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), January 31, 2000.

First take his temperature. l02 normal. Any time you purchase stock and stress them by moving them you cause the worms that were inactive (arrested) to multiply rapidly. Look at his gums, are they pink? It is a very inexpensive test to run a parasite test for worms. What about lice? Both Lice and Worms will cause depression from the lack of blood in the body. Perhaps if you can give us some more information we can give you a better guess. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 31, 2000.

This is Scout with the poorly looking goat. Ears and toes still cold from being in the barn with the goats. Checking out my buck in light of the thoughtful e-mail responses. Thank you. Seems Joshua, my son, is right about the buck. The buck's eyes are unfocused. No energy in him. Seems to me his hips look awfully gaunt. Please remember I'm a newbie at farm animals when I describe him. His appearance in his hip/rump area and belly are very similar to one of my pregnant does which must be very near to kidding (Large udder, full teets, for over a week now. The buck's backbone in the hip area is, as I mentioned, very gaunt. Every couple of minutes, it appears he takes an enormous breath, lowers his head and brings up his cud to chew. It seems his ribs greatly expand when he does this. Felt that area on his left side. Feels like a half full water balloon. Strangely, everywhere he goes, almost, he walks is reverse, even when we are not advancing at all. Very concerned about him now. A goat friend prescribes removing alfalfa, pellets, giving warm water, B complex shot, and ProBias. What do you all think? His ears don't feel warm, if it's any indication of a temperature. Thanks, again, Scout

-- Scout (scout@kanokla.net), January 31, 2000.

Scout, sounds like you have a very sick buck on your hands. I would call the vet immediately. Was he given alot of the pelletted feed? Does he appear to be bloated? I've never had a goat get sick like this so I cant guess what the problem might be. If you cant get ahold of a vet try to talk to someone who knows goats that could come take a look at him. What about his previous owner?It doesnt sound like worms to me, sounds like Rebekah had the right idea.Good luck and let us know what happens to him.

-- Julie (juliecapasso@aol.com), January 31, 2000.

You have an animal suffering and in such condition that it might die in extreme pain. We can't tell you what's wrong with it for sure, you don't know, a vet is educated and trained to know. You owe it to the animal and yourself to either get a vet or put it out of its misery - URGENTLY.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), February 01, 2000.

We had one die in much the same way .We tried walking it to reduce the bloat . They say to drench it with veggie oil .Nothing worked .I believe it was from over eating or possibly from a foran object maybe plastic .Hope everything goes better for you .I would call a vet if money allows .Other wise consider putting him down .Sorry I couldn't be more positive.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), February 01, 2000.

Scout, I hope the buck is still alive cause it sounds like he is going to die if someting is not done soon. please do not worm a sick goat, this will add too much stress to the goat. it would not hurt to give him some antibiotics if you have some. The change in the feed probably set this whole episode off. you must start a change in feed very slowly. And you need to find out what is in the new feed. Urea can kill goats, and not all of them either. it is a protein supplement put in cattle feed cause the poor cow will eat almost anything and not die. If you can afford it CALL YOUR VET NOW. if not, then give the guy some antibiotics at least twice a day, try to get him to take fluids, get him a heat lamp[not too close to him just enough to warm him]. good luck karen

-- KAREN MAUK (DAIRYGOATMAMA@AOL.COM), February 01, 2000.

Absolutely get that goat to a large animal vet. There are a number of things that he could have gotten into. He could have coccydiosis which is fatal if untreated and our first batch of registered nubians that I bought 2 years ago all died of it and the second batch had a severe go round, but we saved them and it showed up about 2 mos after we bought them.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), February 01, 2000.

try Mystic Horizons Pygmy Goats site. We have pygmys and have asked plenty of questions and they have been quite helpful. Good Luck. When we could no afford the vet we called county extension agent. They helped some.

-- Tom (Calfarm@msn.com), February 01, 2000.

I am starting to get the feeling that the goat has died? Scout, is he still around? How is he doing? Every experienced goatkeeper will tell you that they have had many sad experiences like this -it's how we've learned what we know.

-- Rebekah Leaf (daniel1@transport.com), February 03, 2000.

HI, I recently experienced a similiar case with one of my top alpine bucks. Seems on New Years Day he found that the grain bin was open and he got out of his pen and "partied". I noticed the next day he was very swollen in the stomach and listless. He had bloat. I got the info for the milk of magnesia from the goat handbook under overeating or entrotoxomia (sp). I immediately called the vet, but all 3 vets i work with were out. I then had to act fast so I gave him 1/2 cup milk of magnesia and the we walked him and walked him and walked him. then an experienced goat breeder cam on alpine chat which i am on and told me to use teaspoon of hair conditioner to 1/4 cup warm water and down the hatch. I used a turkey baster and walked him til he exploded from both ends. Then after the vet finally called that night. If I had waited my goat may have died. and he said to give him mineral oil, about 1/4 cup and follow with 1/4 cup baking soda mixed in a watery paste form. then we had to give him penicillan 3cc 2x's daily. Don't let him lie, get him up and walk him, give the milk of magnesia or hair conditioner mix and walk him til he goes. if you needd help let me know. I saved my guy by this method. Good Luck, act fast.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), February 04, 2000.