"Don't blame old lines for flood in Downtown Cleveland, experts say Friday, January 14, 2000

"Old pipes don't mean bad pipes," said John Sullivan, chief engineer for the Water and Sewer Commission in Boston, where leaks are dramatically below the national average despite some water mains that predate the Civil War. Other pipe-busting factors, experts say, are manufacturing defects, corrosive soil, vibration from traffic or construction, shifting ground, or surges in water pressure. Cleveland officials are still trying to determine why the rupture that spilled more than 25 million gallons through the heart of downtown occurred."

There's also an update on how the fix on the pipeline is progressing. Link to Story:

http://www.cleveland.com/news/pdnews/metro/

Link to the original thread of story:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002IqX

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 14, 2000

Answers

"Other pipe-busting factors, experts say, are manufacturing defects, corrosive soil, vibration from traffic or construction, shifting ground, or surges in water pressure."

Hmmmmm, just how is the water pressure monitored????

-- Duke1983 (Duke1983@aol.com), January 14, 2000.

If there was a surge in pressure for any reason, they already know about it. Pressure is constantly monitored, and recorded on charts, not necessarily high tech. They can show instant proof as to weather or not there was a surge.

-- Earl (earl.shuholm@worldnet.att.net), January 14, 2000.

Do you know specifically that Cleveland uses charts, and if they do there are newer charts fed from the old 4-20 mAmp pressure sensor that even has its own logic chip. Also just because the information is avialable doesn't mean its released.

Would expect more likely a combination of events coming together.

Heck Clevelands lucky the water didn't catch fire ;-)

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), January 14, 2000.

---allright, I confess! it was a bad batch of Buzz Beer, too much carbonation, we dumped it down the drain behind the Warsaw. So sue us!

-- funnyguy (bigguywithglasses@eatalot.nodates), January 14, 2000.

Actually, our river hasn't caught fire in years.

I would SUSPECT that the charting, if done, probably uses instruments older than that. Chips?? chips?? in pressure monitors?? Here??

Someone probably expects us to be in the 80's (18, 19, 20 or somewhere in between)

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 14, 2000.

WHEW - What a mess!!

Damage to sewer may delay repairs - Saturday, January 15, 2000

Damage to a turn-of-the-century sewer running under the downtown city water main that burst this week may delay completion of repairs by up to two days.

Officials of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District last night said they had not been able to assess the extent of the damage to their line 10 feet under the intersection of E. 9th St. and Rockwell Ave. because the city had not been able to completely shut off the ruptured waterline.

The oval-shaped sewer line, about 4 feet wide and made of brick, runs under the water main, which is 6 feet underground.

A stream of water several inches deep continued to flow out of the 36-inch water main until early yesterday, puddling in the bottom of the hole.

The sewer line collapsed and a section of it washed away after millions of gallons of water surged out of the 7-foot-long rupture in the side of the water main Wednesday afternoon.

The water flushed tons of sand and debris out of the area, undermining an underground vault carrying Ameritech fiber optics. The vault then fell 7 feet, crashing into the sewer line.

City Water Commissioner Julius Ciaccia said city workers got an almost complete shutoff of the water within three hours of the break.

He said workers had to be cautious in cranking shut the valves controlling the flow - a job that took more than 100 turns on each valve - because of the risk that the aging and possibly corroded valves would lock permanently shut if they were completely closed.

Cleveland Safety Director Henry Guzman yesterday said he was still optimistic the intersection can be reopened to traffic by the Tuesday morning rush hour. But even he said that the big question mark is the status of the sewer.

Rod Dell'Andrea, project manager for the sewer district, said private contractors, sewer and city water officials yesterday estimated that repairs to the sewer, water, steam, electric and telephone lines, as well as the road, could be completed by 11 a.m. Tuesday under the "best-case scenario."

He said they also estimated that the work may take an additional two days if more snags in the evolving repair job emerge.

Inspectors may know by this morning whether the bottom half of the sewer pipe leading north, toward Lake Erie, is intact.

If so, workers can remove the pipe's ruined "crown" and replace only that section. If the entire pipe has to be replaced, it will add at least a day's work, said Richard Switalski, manager of the sewer district's design department.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), January 15, 2000.