ARE THE GAS LINE LEAKS, CHEMICAL LEAKS, ETC. AND EXPLOSIONS A NORMAL EVENT WORLD WIDE,IT SEEMS A RASH OF THEM IN THE PAST FEW DAYS???IS IT POSSIBLE THEY ARE EMBEDDED SYSTEM OR GLITCH RELATED PROBLEMS????

-- J (jax@borg.com), January 12, 2000

Answers

Dude, stop yelling. Take the caps lock off. There, that's better. Actually, I think it has more to do with the age and corrosion level of the equipment (eg the pipes and valves) than it does Y2K.

-- Rabbit (shh@be vewy.quiet), January 12, 2000.

Yes

-- Earl (earl.shuholm@worldnet.att.net), January 12, 2000.

On the other hand, weren't unspecified computer problems blamed for the opening of a valve in a pipeline that led to a large gasoline leak --> explosion that killed three kids in Bellingham, Washington state last year (or was it in 1998?). Someone please correct me if I mis-state the case. I am NOT trying to say that the Bellingham explosion was Y2K related, merely suggesting that computer errors can apparently cause explosive real-world problems. And let's not forget the infamous Van Nuys, California sewage spill.

It seems reasonable to keep close watch on these various industrial accidents to see if any Y2K link becomes apparent...while certainly reminding ourselves that stuff breaks all the time, we are just watching for it more closely now.

--Andre in southcentral PA

-- Andre Weltman (aweltman@health.state.pa.us), January 12, 2000.

We're just now beginning to enter the time frame for many buffers to fill up and dump, (in regards to embedded systems).

In other words...what the experts were saying about embedded chips possibly taking time to develope (See the Tava Report as cited in my final projections for 1999 in the oil industry section)... any where from one week to a month in many if not most cases. In other words, we're just now beginning to enter the window of opportunity for the embeddeds problem to show its ugly head. Strap yourselves down folks, things could get wild...but then again, maybe not. One thing is for certain, "it ain't over til it's over" and Y2K ain't over, it just got started.

It sure would be nice for the pollies to hang around and take a little of the medicine they've tried to dish out to the doomers... but will they have the class to do so??? No.. they're all gone now, heading for the hills so to speak. Even Flint thru in the towel too early OR maybe he knew the time was right to get out of Dodge while he still could?

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 12, 2000.

Here's a link for complete info on the Bellingham incident and what chemsafety.gov says was probably the cause after it's initial investigation; scada was overtasked - humans could not get control fast enough to prevent the leak. Sounds kind of nuclear...

I think stuf like this has happened in the past. While driving along I84 near Portland Oregon (I think it was '98), you could see a large fire from miles away across the river in Washington. A natural gas pipeline had broken (somehow) and a fire started; very big flame! Supposedly it was due to earth movement. Maybe.

http://www.y2k- status.org/Embedded/Bellingham.htm

-- warren blim (mr_little@yahoo.com), January 12, 2000.

RC is right. The pollies are bailing out so they won't have to answer to all the Y2K problems we've been having recently. In the end, they're just cowards after all.

-- (daveO@wetrail.net), January 12, 2000.

ah, come on. are they ALL bailing???? really? just when FEMA pats us (DOOMERS) on the back! they are around, they just don't want to talk to us anymore.

today was really a strange one with all the natural gas and ammonia line disruptions. just seemed too coincidental.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), January 12, 2000.

It does seem that many pollys are dropping off the forum.

Could it be because their employer is not paying them to post here anymore?

Sooner or later, Y2K will be fixed and forgotten or the breakdowns will be so apparent that the spin will look plain stupid. Since it is Day 12 and breakdowns still appear to be occuring (some say increasing but I know of no objective proof that Y2K impacts are increasing); we are beyond the three day bump in the road.

There is still a lot to monitor. Hint: the ECONOMY!

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), January 12, 2000.

Bill,

In regards to the notion of increasing frequency of problems my comments were pointed towards reports involving oil and natural gas and other processing too perhaps... but I did make a couple of visits to Downstreamer's oil forum where they are posting a lot of the incidents (though not all are getting reported for posting purposes). Combine this with the previous posts of problems and then today's multiples which are as follows...

Niles Illinois Gas explosion

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Igj

Story posted by Homer about Natural Gas industry problems... and you talk about a laundry list... and note how coincidental that problems just cropped up on Jan 1. But as we ALLLLLLL knowwwww ... it could not be possibly related at all to Y2K now could it? Of course not... nahhhh couldn't be Y2K...it just isn't permitted.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Ifl

Another gas explosion in Colorado http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Ifb

2 Ammonia explosions-- one in Wisconsin the other in Michigan http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002IfU

Now Homer's posted thread on the Natural Gas contains a list of a number of incidents...just read down through all of them and I certainly get the sense that the directional trend is moving upwards. Now the question becomes:

Will the increase continue and if so for how long? Another day or two? A week, 2 weeks? A month? It's hard to say. But it definitely would be premature to say its over.

AND OH, btw Bill... thanks for suggesting the polly's might be getting paid to be here. GOOD POINT! I forgot about that possibility. I figured they're either illogical or pathological. I forgot it might be motivated by "greed" to make money off of Y2k for themselves. If so how hypocritical of them to deride folks like Ed or Hyatt or anyone else they claim was in it for the money. Excellent point you made.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 12, 2000.

"humans could not get control fast enough to prevent the leak"

Translation: "Going manual is a bitch."

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), January 12, 2000.

Ron, thanks for putting that in the lingua franca.

-- Squirrel Hunter (nuts@upina.tree), January 12, 2000.

I've been lurking in this forum for about 3 weeks. I was first attracted by the sharp thinking concerning y2k prep. I wanted to gather as much info as possible so that I could make informed decisions to benefit my family and others for whom I have some responsibility. Thanks to all of you for spending time to share with all of us who seek truth.

I have no knowledge about how natural gas delivery systems function So, I'm not sure this relates at all to y2k. But here it is anyway. in November, a Flint Michigan nursing home (Clara Barton Nursing Home) exploded. There were casualties including 2 or 3 fatalities. On the Tuesday news it was reported that investigators have ruled out problems with the boilers. They suggested, though, that the problem might be related to natural gas.

I have been told, but can't confirm, that there were problems with natural gas in Flint at and around the time of this explosion.

Hungry for truth.

-- Richard Coleman (maryegc@email.msc.com), January 12, 2000.