I guess this is more or a statement then a question. The problem with this whole phenomena is the people who were getting everyone all excited about this DON'T work in this industry. Just like the people publishing books on HOW to raise children DON'T HAVE any of their own. I'm amazed that people, like sheep, follow so blindly someones opinion without first researching that person. Have they WORKED in the REAL world? Or have they always hidden behind a desk at some university. In the computer industry, universities are pretty much a joke when it comes to preparing people to enter the computer work force. I have worked in this industry for 20 years and I would mostly just laugh when one of my family of friends asked me about the Y2K bug. Unfortunately, there were respected individuals convincing people that the End Is Near.

I just wish and hope that people will LEARN to NOT blindly believe everything they read no matter WHO says it, including me. RESEARCH the source first, and ALWAYS go get 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinions. Especially before you turn your life upside down.

-- Terry Bittner (tbittner@softbitenterprises.com), January 05, 2000

Answers

Judging from your pathetic web page, I guess you wouldn't have been the person to ask about it, huh?

-- Jim (jhm25447@aol.com), January 05, 2000.

Jim,

His page may be pathetic, but it sure does load fast! ;-)

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), January 05, 2000.

I knew I should have done that. :-)

LOL!!!

-- Terry Bittner (tbittner@softbitenterprises.com), January 05, 2000.

Terry, you don't understand the basic, underlying premise here. These people are obsessed with conspiracies. Trust me, any conspiracy will do and nothing is too preposterous. Y2K is just the latest. In a month or two they will all move on to something else just as absurd or worse.

This forum has little to do with computers, it has to do with people who live their lives in fear of everything. Whether it be the Government, the Bermuda triangle or little green men from Mars, it makes no difference to them. They prefer to live in their pathetic little worlds, professing to be the keepers of some arcane and esoteric knowledge that is being covered up by the powers that be for whatever reason. And the rest of us are too blind and stupid to figure it out for ourselves.

Please, these people deserve our sympathy, not our derision.

Just remember everyone, truly saving oneself has little to do with how much you store up, but how much you give away.

God bless, Jeff

-- Jeff Hoffman (Trimmer_cc@hotmail.com), January 05, 2000.

Thank you Jeff.

-- Terry Bittner (tbittner@softbitenterprises.com), January 05, 2000.

opinion # 1 -- Congressional reports
opinion # 2 -- CIA
opinion # 3 -- Monitor International
opinion # 4 -- US State Department

How many more would you like?

The 'end is near' isn't what we have been concerned about. What concerns me -- and it still does -- are all of those long JIT supply lines to companies in countries that have still done nothing. What concerned me -- and it still does -- is the very real potential for a depression.

What concerns me is when Downstreamer -- who has steadily resisted admitting problems in the oil industry -- reports that problems abound.

It doesn't concern me when you make stupid and self serving posts of this nature, patting yourself on the back for being right (so far).

-- rocky (rknolls@no.spam), January 05, 2000.

Mr. Bittner, I have always applied that same theory to debunking Catholicism. 'Tis excellent. Thanks.

-- Simpleminded (nope@wont.never), January 05, 2000.

I guess if people would just use a little common sense and step back from the situation and THINK about it for a minute, they might realize that most industries have been dealing with Y2K for as much as 30 years. Or don't they think that industries never calculate out numbers for 30 years in advance. For example, mortgages, credit card expirations, vehicle registrations, etc...

Oh well.

-- Terry Bittner (tbittner@softbitenterprises.com), January 05, 2000.

Terry,

Years ago, certain men had the ability to grasp firmly the concepts and fundamentals of every known field of science, art and thought...they were called Rennasaince men. These men would be able to literally know almost everything there was to know. That is an impossible task today.

Ironically, it is the Y2K "division of labor" argument which makes it impossible to for any one man to know everything there is to know. We are therefore dependant upon the knowledge and wisdom of the experts of these specialized fields of knowledge. The specialization of knowledge is so divided as to have left us depending upon MULTIPLE experts, even in the same general field. Just in the IT field, there are many, many subdivisions of expertise. (And believe me...anyone who has visited this board for any length of time will tell you how often the IT experts clashed even on the most basic premises of the Y2K issue).

So in retrospect, it is dificult to imagine anyone who didn't play the role of sheeple at least for part of the time.

Personally, I had to rely upon the understanding of many people...and I still do. I would have never come here if I wasn't in a position to defer to someone else's geater understanding. That's why I think that it is disingenuous of pollies and doomers alike to resort to "I told you so" posting. It only serves to alienate and deeply offend those who sincerely believed they were doing the right thing.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), January 05, 2000.

You are right and I applogize.

-- Terry (tbittner@softbitenterprises.com), January 05, 2000.

Terry, you don't understand the basic, underlying premise here. These people [Who are these people that you are referring to? Doomers, all forum contributors?] are obsessed with conspiracies. Trust me, any conspiracy will do and nothing is too preposterous. Y2K is just the latest. In a month or two they will all move on to something else just as absurd or worse.

This forum has little to do with computers, it has to do with people who live their lives in fear of everything.[How long have you been posting here? Long enough to draw the outlandish and laughable conclusion that follows?] Whether it be the Government, the Bermuda triangle or little green men from Mars, it makes no difference to them. They prefer to live in their pathetic little worlds, professing to be the keepers of some arcane and esoteric knowledge that is being covered up by the powers that be for whatever reason. And the rest of us are too blind and stupid to figure it out for ourselves.

Please, these people deserve our sympathy, not our derision.[So if these people deserve our sympathy, then why do you call them obsessed and pathetic?]

Just remember everyone, truly saving oneself has little to do with how much you store up, but how much you give away.[Which generous part of yourself are YOU giving away? It certainly can't be compassion and understanding, can it?]

God bless, Jeff [Funny that you would invoke God's name while your soul is full of contempt and condescension]

-- Jeff Hoffman (Trimmer_cc@hotmail.com), January 05, 2000.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), January 05, 2000.

Terry...no offense taken..apologies accepted.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), January 05, 2000.

Terry - wouldn't you consider Ed Yourdon a computer professional who has worked in the real world? I gather from your post that you are not a mainframe programmer. Every mainframe COBOL programmer saw enough Y2K problems in their career to know that Y2K was not a hoax.

-- kermit (colourmegreen@hotmail.com), January 05, 2000.

Jeff Hoffman,

Approximately how many of "these people" have you found on the forum? Why would you wish to incorrectly categorize the vast majority of the forum this way together with the small portion who may believe some of these things? Does this somehow make you feel superior? Do you get a "rush" of "self-esteem" when you do this?

Further, you know that some people who are overwhelmed at the idea that there are many types of people tend to arbitrarily group people by one (usually inconsequential) characteristic or idea or flaw they may have, and assume that they therefore somehow think alike; that the remainder of their ideas and characteristics and personalities are either less relevant or irrelevant.

Intellectually lazy people do this, as well as racists and others.

Try to resist these tendencies, Jeff. See and treat people as individuals, judge them accordingly, and maybe you'll get a little respect.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 05, 2000.

IBM, Red Cross suggest safeguards for New Year's Computer giant and aid agency suggest using common sense

Jonathan Chevreau Financial Post

A recent internal publication issued by International Business Machines Corp. focused on the Y2K problem, advises employees around the world to make personal contingency plans and be prepared on personal finances, including putting aside some extra cash.

The special 1999 issue of IBM's Think magazine, headlined simply "Understanding Y2K," also advises workers to be flexible about vacation plans and to be prepared for unusually heavy workloads in the fourth quarter of 1999 and first quarter of 2000.

"In planning for the transition to 2000, nothing is being taken for granted, and few scenarios are too far-fetched," it warns.

For personal living preparations, it largely relies on the recommendations of the American Red Cross, available on the Internet at www.redcross.org/disaster/ safety/y2k.html.

"Stock non-perishable foods, water and medications you use regularly," the IBM publication says. "Have some extra cash on hand; fill your gas tank a day or so before New Year's Eve; and have blankets, gloves, flashlights and extra batteries on hand in case of power failures." (It suggests candles are hazardous.)

While the document says "there's no reason to panic," it also suggests that employees "should talk to your personal bank/credit union/health-care provider about whether they are ready." It also cautions people to "beware of rumours," particularly spread over the Internet.

While personal preparation suggestions are often cited by Y2K skeptics as coming from the lunatic fringe, it's quite another thing coming from IBM or the Red Cross.

But IBM acknowledges it has been essentially near "ground zero" in the whole Y2K phenomenon. In 1964, it reminds us, IBM introduced the System/360 mainframe, and used a two-digit year to conserve space on punch cards.

Indeed it is a former IBMer-- Peter de Jager -- who became dubbed the Paul Revere of the Y2K crisis when he issued his call for action in a 1993 article in Computerworld magazine, headlined "Doomsday 2000."

Last March, Mr. de Jager declared Doomsday had, in fact, been avoided, asserting that the world had at least broken the back of Y2K enough to avert the most far-out "end of the world as we know it" apocalyptic scenarios.

That doesn't mean there won't be days or weeks of disruptions. What's remarkable about the IBM publication is its repeated reminders that "all markets, all businesses, all governments and all communities are interconnected."

In fact, IBM's graphic descriptions of Y2K interconnectedness and interdependencies aren't radically different from the dire falling-domino theories of such Y2K doomsayers as Dr. Gary North and Joe Boivin.

"It's not enough to convert your own business, because you're not ready until your entire supply chain is," IBM says.

"It's not enough to live in a Y2K-ready neighborhood unless all its interwoven threads -- businesses, schools, neighbourhood associations, police and fire departments -- are ready. Y2K will throw these interconnections into sharp relief."

The publication warns of the billions of embedded chips contained in such diverse technologies as oil-drilling equipment, airplanes, medical devices and microwave ovens.

It says efforts to find and fix embedded chips will continue "well after Jan. 1, 2000." Mr. de Jager calls embedded chips the wild card of Y2K.

But Y2K, according to IBM, is not primarily about the way we code dates in computer software, hardware or components. Rather, "it's mostly about how information technology has spread throughout our economy, society and personal lives."

IBM recognizes that opinions about the consequences of not being Y2K- ready "range all over the map. Perhaps the biggest problem with Y2K is that no one knows exactly what will happen."

From its interaction with customers around the world, IBM does not see anything to support predictions of a global recession or some kind of "digital winter."

It says large U.S. organizations "should be ready," although it is "less certain ... how small businesses and less developed nations will fare... Many are on the move now, but they've got to pick up the pace."

IBM met with some internal resistance when it began one year ago -- relatively late in the game -- to gather data on contingency plans. It eventually came up with 10 scenarios "that could possibly go wrong -- from applications and systems failures to disruptions in utilities, telephone and public mail services." It called the exercise sobering.

That's why businesses have developed contingency plans and why individuals should also regard some personal preparations as a form of insurance against disruptions.

The Red Cross suggests having on hand at least a three-day supply of household staples. This is consistent with the most conservative Y2K- preparation gurus, who compare any possible disruptions to a weekend storm. There are plenty of Y2K experts who argue for a month or many months of supplies.

The Red Cross Disaster Supplies Kit checklist includes storing a gallon of water per person per day, non-perishable food, a first-aid kit, non-prescription drugs, various sanitation items such as toilet paper, tools such as flashlights and battery-operated radio, a non- electric can opener, warm clothing, extra eyeglasses or contact lenses and much more.

Canadian Y2K gurus would add to the list a supply of firewood for a fireplace or wood stove.

Don't wait until the final few weeks, since such supplies could be unavailable, scarce or very costly.

Coming from prominent Y2K gloom-and-doomers, such survival contingency plans might appear ludicrous. But when they come from IBM and the Red Cross, maybe -- just maybe --there may be cause to take at least the teensiest bit of personal preparations.

Besides, even if Y2K ends up a blustery gust rather than a raging storm, there's always the possibility a major blizzard or other act of God could strike.

Residents of Eastern Canada who suffered through the ice storm almost two years ago would have welcomed having a lot more than the Red Cross' three days worth of provisions. Mr. de Jager told CTV News last week that two or three weeks of provisions would be prudent.

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.

Sysman, I may get some preps after all, if the fightin' in here starts to disrupt society ;)

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), January 05, 2000.

LOL FactFinder! This could be the start of WW III at this rate! <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.