smells like a swimming pool, it may have too much chlorine. I saw a post here about 10 days ago that 2 municipal water suppliers had advanced the clocks and the embedded systems failed. The failure mode was too much chlorine which could make you very sick or could even be fatal. I do not know if dangerous levels of chlorine would be obvious by the smell or if water that smelled normal could be dangerous? Any experts out there on this? The odds are that hundreds or thousands of water systems across the country will have this problem and the local officials may not notice in time to cut off the water or warn people before they drink it. Or the power may be off so that notification is impossible or difficult. If there is any indication of problems, Curly and I will be drinking out of the stored 2 liter bottles until the risk is determined.

-- Moe (Moe@3stooges.gom), December 26, 1999

Answers

Dear Moe, Even if your tap water contains eight to ten times the usual amount of chlorine, the biggest problem will be esthetic; it will smell nasty.

You already have chlorine in your stomach (as digestive acids) so don't worry about getting poisoned. Any dissolved gas (chlorine, chloroform, oxygen, etc)can be largely removed from water by heating and stirring; when the smell eases up, you'll be done, and have the added confidence that hyper-chlorination will have killed or oxidized any organics or biologicals. Just cook it a while.

-- james hyde (hydesci@gte.net), December 26, 1999.

Now too much flourine would be much more interesting as it would tend to attack the pipes.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), December 26, 1999.

The failure mode was too much chlorine

This is NOT true. Show a reference besides someones opinion.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), December 26, 1999.

Cherri,
Your statement "This is NOT true." is not backed up by any reference/data either. In fact, Moe stated "I saw a post here about 10 days ago that 2 municipal water suppliers had advanced the clocks and the embedded systems failed. The failure mode was too much chlorine which could make you very sick or could even be fatal." He did provide a reference. If you are sure that that is false, first find the post Moe was referencing and show the rest of us that Moe misrepresented the post. Then you are allowed to state "This is NOT true." Not before.
Thank you.

-- wondering what (it.is.all@about.com), December 26, 1999.

You don't even have to "cook" water to get the chlorine out - I'm told you can just let it sit overnight in an open container and the chlorine will go into the air. Or so says my local water utility. My understanding is that if you can't smell chlorine, you're okay. So even if it is 10 times the normal amount, you can just leave it out that much longer. Because you've got at least 3 days of "good" water on hand, right? Right?

-- don't worry (okay@calm.com), December 26, 1999.

The article in guestion is correct, too much chlorine is just as bad as not having any. Yes chlorine is poisonous, will make you sick. What the article didn't say is no chlorine is also a health risk. If the equipment fails, by a computor malfunction, I didn't say a y2k bug, the drinking water can also have bugs that will make you very sick. Bugs mean microorganisms. They include bacteria, viruses, and parasites. These microorganisms are commonly referred to as PATHOGENIC (disease-causing) ORGANISMS. These microorganisms must be killed. The purpose of disinfection is to destroy pathogenic microorganisms.

-- clyde king (cjk@kiva.net), December 26, 1999.

go look at the chlorine tanks & holding areas it looks like acid has eat them.

rkrato

-- rkrato (RKRATO2862@PHONL.COM), December 26, 1999.

When I was working my way through college, I worked for the local water & sewer utility one summer. One day in the water plant, while observing the computerized machinery that measured out small amounts of chlorine into the water, I asked my boss (2nd in command at the utility) what would happen if I added one of the 50 pound bags of chlorine directly into the water supply. He said it would most likely kill everyone on the water system (several thousand people). Since I'm not technically qualified to say if he was right or not, I'm assuming he knew what he was talking about. I'll have my water stored before rollover.

-- W@TER (peon@water.sewer), December 26, 1999.

Chlorine is DEADLY if ingested in excessive amounts. And it does not matter if it is swallowed, breathed in, or injected directly intravenously. PERIOD!

Children have died from gas bubbles emitted from swimming pools that have been over chlorinated. People have died from consuming water from a new system that has been over chlorinated. Drug addicts have died from using needles that were cleaned with pure bleach. Arrrggggghhhh!!

If you can smell it, test it!! If you don't know how to test it, find out! Ask! If the water feels greasy to the touch DON'T DRINK IT!

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), December 26, 1999.

Posted this September 23.

"A slightly-larger-than-normal amount of chlorine
and potassium permanganate into the water system"

Water plant unexpectedly shuts down

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 26, 1999.

Yes, chlorine is dangerous. Chlorine is 2.5 times heavier than air, which means it seeks a lower level of existence. Chlorine gas reacts with water to form hydrochloric acid. Very,very corrosive. I am used to handling calcium hypochlorite, inhaled will give you symptoms of a throat irritation, coughing, general restlessness, panic, sneezing, and difficulty in breathing. Calcium hypochlorite can be deluted to make a stock for personal disisfection of drinking water. Lets see if I can find it. www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.CFM/6940 Chemicals are dangerous when in the wrong hands, but very useful when used correctly.

-- clyde king (cjk@kiva.net), December 26, 1999.

Too much chlorine could make you sick or kill you. But chlorine is not tricky. You'll smell it, it will make your eyes water, and you'll taste it. If your water does any of these, there's too much. It will evaporate if you let it exposed to the air.

But you do need to add chlorine to protect from harmful microorganisms. Household bleach is about a 5.5% solution. Sixteen drops is enough to kill the bugs in a gallon of clear water, double it if the water is dirty.

-- John Littmann (JTL9700@JUNO.COM), December 27, 1999.

Agreed, we use it all the time to cleanse water systems. We must also flush, flush, and flush again, until the nominal ppm is attained, because we are poisoning huge amounts of water at once. That's the purpose of doing it in the first place. To kill the bugs. We test using iodine, but there are a couple of other tests available.

The point about testing.. it is the safest and most comprenhesive because not everyone can smell well enough to be SURE. Case in point; A good friend works for the Water Bureau (coincidently) and when younger he severely cut the bridge of his nose while working. He can no longer smell or taste most things, but he still requires water. If you know someone that has similar dysfunction's, please help to inform them of the water *testing* regime. Thank you very much.

Respectfully

Michael

-- MIchael (mikeymac@uswest.net), December 27, 1999.

to all:

Keep in mind that the sodium flouride used in most water systems has no taste or smell and is much more deadly than chlorine. Flourine is the main component of many military nerve gases. A few years ago in England, a child died in a dentist's office from drinking one small cup of flouride mouthwash. The lawsuit which followed forced Colgate-Palmolive to market a completely non-flouride toothpaste in England. Former Soviet operatives in the U.S. have testified before congress that one of their objectives in the event of war was to dump large quantities of sodium flouride (not chlorine) into municpal water systems. If you are in an area where water supplies are questionable, use bottled water at the rollover until the water is known to be safe.

-- duckinglow (keepway@low.com), December 27, 1999.

clyde king: So, every time I go to the pool, I am swimming in hydrochloric acid? Even if this were true, hydrochloric acid is the same stuff you have in your stomach. I have drunk hydrochloric acid before (once, in a chemistry class), and it tastes much like orange juice, and it's not that corrosive copared to say carbonic acid or sulfuric acid. But, it isn't really true, since then all our drinking water would actually be hydrochloric acid too. As stated elsewhere, the real problem is fluoride. I seem to recall reading about a water treatment plant in New Zealand that did a rollover test earlier this year where their system failed, and dumped all their fluoride into the water at once. Since it was a test, they didn't release the water, but it shows that it could still happen.

jes' Thinkin'...

-- Little Pig (littlepig@brickhouse.com), December 27, 1999.

The answer to your question came from the manual. Sorry, but you can research it your self. I am a licensed wastewater operator, and chlorine will act different in different situations. Now take chlorine storage, if a bulk tank leaks and mixes with water, a cloud will form, hugging the ground, and will expand to quite large. It will kill anything around. Study up and you will find it was used in WWI. The heavier than air gas will seek lower altitudes such as ditches, basements, and a low lying areas. WWI it seeped into foxholes and trenches killing the troops. When I open the container of calcium hypochlorine, small barrel, it is done in an open area. If inhaled, it will take your air away. Once done, you will never forget the smell. I cannot explain in words how dangerous this stuff is.

-- clyde king (cjk@kiva.net), December 27, 1999.

littlepig, did you go to garynorths site I posted? I downloaded that paticular segment for future reference. Even tho I am a wasterwater supt, my ficility is run by manual labor, but the threat of no water scares me. And for the short hall, a disinfection that can be made for personal use is being prudent. My community depends on electricity to supply their water needs.(NO BACK UP GENERATION) so you see my prepardedness. My plant has two backup generators!!

-- clyde king (cjk@kiva.net), December 27, 1999.