Everybody should store up water for four days, according to this USA Today story.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), December 10, 1999

Answers

Well the assumptions are made from old data and in the Senate report said that drinking water wasn't near the risk as the waste water side of things.

Now that is a problem

I still think that water hasn't recieved the attention it deserves though. Cracks me up that folks are more worried about airplanes. WHO NEEDS TO FLY???

IMHO Water should be more important than banks and telcos. Obviously folks have rarely lived without water on demand. If your bank fails or your water fails, which is more important? I would love to live without a phone sometimes :o) but could never live without water.

Y2K study: Water supplies are vulnerable

By M.J. Zuckerman, USA TODAY

Drinking water and sewage facilities are threatened by the looming Y2K computer glitch, according to a study by two watchdog agencies that blames government and industry with lax oversight.

"There are serious doubts that the 55,000 drinking water utilities and the 16,000 publicly owned wastewater facilities in the United States will be prepared for Y2K," the report by the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Center for Y2K & Society says.

The report is drawn from surveys conducted by groups such as the American Water Works Association, which found that no more than 40% of those responding had completed the first stage of Y2K upgrades by June. Further, the report notes, fewer than 15% of wastewater treatment facilities are prepared.

Although the study sparked debate among government and industry representatives, all agreed that every household should stockpile water - a gallon of water per day per person to last a minimum of four days - through the first few months of 2000.

"Clearly, many water systems are going to operate without problems," said Norman Dean, executive director of the Center for Y2K & Society. "However, our report indicates that some are likely to suffer Y2K- related problems."

With only three weeks remaining, water joins a short list of likely Y2K trouble spots, including 911 systems, schools, scattered power facilities and some medical and social service systems.

The report notes that low water pressure could interfere with firefighting, and Y2K interruptions could cut stockpiles of water treatment chemicals.

"We are very concerned about wastewater preparedness," said Don Meyer, spokesman for the Senate Y2K Committee. "However, we disagree that drinking water is in crisis."

Jon DeBoers of the American Water Works Association conceded that survey results were not entirely encouraging but said, "The vast majority of the water systems have tested most of their critical components and are confident that they are Y2K-ready."

He acknowledged that any prolonged power failure would create great difficulties for water and sewage stations.

The report blames the Environmental Protection Agency and President Clinton's Y2K Council for not responding aggressively after the surveys came out.

"My ultimate sense is that most of the large utilities are going to be prepared," said Chuck Fox, EPA deputy administrator for water. "If there's going to be (trouble), it would be with the smaller utilities."

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 10, 1999.

Gentlemen, I saw this report's findings and immediately wondered about the validity of it due to the relationship between the findings and the point of time we are at now. Basically, I wondering how long ago the study was done.

Nonetheless, the report is troubling. Allow me to show my ignorance about water and waste systems here by asking this question: what do these systems employ date-related code for, anyway? In essence, what I am asking is that to a waste facility or water pumping station, what does the date really matter and why would this type of coding (or embedded chips, for that matter) be employed by the computers that are running things?

This is not a rhetorical question. I am really wondering.

Regards.

-- Bad Company (johnny@shootingstar.com), December 10, 1999.

It is my understanding, from communication with people who deal with chip technology that many chips have a date function as part of their internal logic circuit, even though the user may be completely unaware of such a date function. The chip is keeping date-related time even though this is not necessary for its current function. Many applications use generic chips that have a date function built in.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), December 10, 1999.

The survey results are available here:

http://www.awwa.org/y2k07.htm

The survey was from June.

Don't know where the quote "no more than 40% of those responding had completed the first stage of Y2K upgrades by June" came from. The survey says that as of June, 40-50% where 100% ready.

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), December 10, 1999.

Another one of the "of those responding" surveys.

snip

no more than 40% of those responding had completed the first stage of Y2K upgrades by June.

-- ghost (fading into the@background.com), December 10, 1999.

4 days doesn't seem like enough. Someone here suggested a rotation of a 10-day supply. Start BEFORE rollover (to get in the habit, and in case there are "glitches" in end-of-year testing). Use and replace from your 10 day supply at least into the first few weeks of 2000. If everyone around you starts getting sick then go to more stringent measures.. boiling, pasteurization (get $5 WAPI pasteurization indicator), or sterilization (with bleach or iodine).

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), December 10, 1999.

what do these systems employ date-related code for, anyway? In essence, what I am asking is that to a waste facility or water pumping station, what does the date really matter and why would this type of coding (or embedded chips, for that matter) be employed by the computers that are running things?

Good questions BC. Starting to come around?

Mah Granpappy helped to build the entire waterworks system for the city of Lowell Mass, and he explained it to me that nowadays, all the chemicals are carefully measured for each water cistern by computer, and the time for the water to 'set' so as to allow the chemicals to fully purify the water is timed by a pc or imbedded timing system. (The chemicals, when in the right doses are helpful, in overstrength can kill you or sicken you!) The timers are also used by the wastewater treatment as the pertinent things such as "how long", "how much" and "how many gallons" are monitored all by pc.

There was one instance of y2k testing that I recall somewhere in the midwest, that when the automated system was forwarded, the computer dumped a weeks worth of chem into the water, thereby turning it into a deadly poison, rather than just purifying it! Thankfully, they were smart enough to do this in a segregated test system so the water did not go into the genberal public for consumption. Unfortunately I don't have the link

anyone else got it?

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 10, 1999.

Well, the opposite is equally likely:

The "upstream" sewage treatment plant fails (like the one did in LA) and overflows by default or by design when the control vlaves shut.

This dumps untreated, unfiltered sewage water into the intake of the downstream facility. If everything works perfectly, the downstream plant still puts out drinkable water - if something goes wrong, .....

Second significant problem: Most water system piping is so leaky, that positive pressure (forcing the water to "flow out" through the holes and cracks and gaps in the piping) is the only thing that keeps the dirty/contaminated ground water from flwoign into the pipes.

If ANYTHING (power failure is only one reason) stops the pumps or forces a loss of water pressure control for more than a few hours (some cities) to a 72 hours (other locations) - the water may be supplied as drinkable into the pipes, but emerge with a "boil water" requirement. And if anybody (who perhaps doesn't have a battery-powered radio tuned to hear the warning) drinks the contaminated water without boiling it - they'll get the same parasites/contaminates/germs that are in the ground.

IF the local water company samples the right places and can analyze the samples properly (need a lab, power, heat, lights, sample tools, etc. all to be working!) and can get the word out that there are problems in the water in the first place.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 10, 1999.

Koskinian, as late as October when I asked on the radio about water - used the same survey results: but he claimed that water will be okay: citing that 87% (about) of the population is served by the major water companies, and this survey in June by the EPA said that "all" of major water companies "would be done" by December.

This was a self-reporting survey by the EPA, with no penalty or legal requirement to answer, that indicated that 88% of those who responded "would be 100% compliant by December". So he concluded that "there will be only isolated problems...and immediately changed the subject and cut me off, going into his usual "keep your money in the banks, three-day storm spiel."

Unfortunately - Mr. K. forgot the remind people that only 16% of the water companies even responded; and of those, not even 90% expected to finish. the result leaves me very concerned about those not answering the question, and the millions of people innocently expecting their comapny to be compliant.

Further, "expect to finish" is not COMPLETE. Even July is a late time to be fixing systems.

Further, the fundemental basis is flawed, in that there has been no followup since July to confirm which have actually gotten done - and which are threatening their users with discomfort and illness.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 10, 1999.

Read the report for yourself: it's at http://www.y2kcenter.org/resources/centerpubs/

It explains how the industry's June report was MISINTERPRETED by the Senate Committee and the President's council, leading to an overly- rosy view of the drinking water industry's readiness.

A follow-up survey by AMWA (Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies) in September was of little use because it consisted of only two questions and failed to ask utilities if they had completed the final, most critical, and often longest phases: TESTING & IMPLEMENTATION. Of course, none of the surveys asked about IV&V.

NRWA's (National Rural Water Assn) survey hasn't even been released yet!

-- d (d@d.com), December 10, 1999.

Bad Company

Here is a post to the forum I made about the risks to the Water - Waste Water Systems in June. This is from the EPA.

At this late date and we are still in the dark.

 EPA Y2K and Water - Waste Water (From Timebomb Post)

 In the Senate Report,

Utilities from 100 day report (Wastewater!!!)

While the confidence level of the wastewater
       industry is very high, the recent AMSA survey data
       indicating only a 14% completion rate as of July
       1999 is a cause for great concern. There is not
       enough detail available to determine how close to
       completion the vast majority of companies are at this
       point. As of July 1999, the graphic representation
       for the remaining activities necessary for Y2K
       remediation before January 1 appears to go almost
       straight up. It may be possible that only a few minor
       tasks remain for full completion of Y2K work for
       many of the companies reporting, but this remains
       unknown. The statistics seem to indicate quite the
       opposite? only 67% reported they had completed the
       assessment stage as of July 1999. Knowing what we
       know about the complexity of Y2K remediation and
       the potential for the occurrence of additional
       unforeseen problems "late in the game," we feel
       justified in saying that we are alarmed by these
       statistics.

       Concerns

       In light of all the concentrated effort that has been
       undertaken, the Committee is surprised by the low
       level of readiness of the wastewater industry
       reflected in the July 1999 AMSA survey. A lack of
       readiness on the part of the wastewater industry can
       have a devastating impact on the drinking water
       supply, no matter how well prepared that sector is.

       All of the AMSA survey participants anticipated
       completion of the repair phase by early fall 1999.
       This leaves virtually no time left for testing for those
       not yet done.

       Another cause of our concern arises solely due to the
       immensity of the water and wastewater sector. The
       power industry pales in comparison to the size,
       scope, and varying degrees of technology that exist
       within the water and wastewater industry. These
       factors make it very difficult to offer any broadbrush
       assessment of the industry.

       The Committee will continue to emphasize the
       importance of readiness, particularly in the
       wastewater sector of this industry in what little time
       remains. We are currently working with the EPA and
       water and wastewater associations to organize a
       summit to take action on remaining concerns in this
       area, and to make further inquiry regarding the
       current readiness of the wastewater industry.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 10, 1999.

Brian, thank you for providing a verifiable article. Food for thought.

-- Bad Company (johnny@shootingstar.com), December 10, 1999.

Bad Company

Thank you for considering it.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 10, 1999.

What was that earlier troll post about "who thinks Y2K will not cause deaths" or some such stuff? Boy, does this make that troll's words ring hollow.

No working water systems; lots of deaths amongst the affected populations. We have serious times ahead of us if this all goes down hard.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 10, 1999.

After air, WATER is the next essential to life.

-- water most important (gotta@have.it), December 10, 1999.

Went out last night and bought pallet of 48 empty gallon containers to fill and add to stash. Got several horrified looks in checkout line. The herd ignores water to their peril.

-- no water (no sewer@no.cities survive), December 11, 1999.