My so-called "energy co-operative", AKA "Great Lakes Energy" (or was that "Great Lakes Entropy"?), has spent the last week yanking us up the yinyang lying about setting us up with a propane tank for our *two* backup generators.

One liar will say "Oh, a thousand gallon tank will be no problem". The next will say "No, she only lied to you to be nice, we'd *never* let you have more than 130 gallons, or *maybe* 300-odd-gallons, but NEVER a thousand, and NEVER 500."

So I ask the second (or was it the third?) liar "Then sell me a tank," to which the liar responds, "No, we can't, because we don't sell tanks."

Of course today, the third liar (or was it the fourth?) said, "We could always just *sell* you a tank" -- but then, of course, refused to discuss it when we asked how much.

And then, the second liar (or was it the first?) said "We can't let you have a thousand gallon tank, because we don't have any more of them."

I could go on (and I will, on a website that I promised to set up in their honor), but by now you get the point, hopefully. These idiots are in Full Dress Panic, and they can't even keep their lies straight from one fool to the next, from one day to another. And the saddest part is that when confronted with their lies, the only thing they can do is stammer out "we.. we.. we.. we.. we.. didn't lie. it wasn't a lie."

Pathetic.

Abso - ef ef ef ef ef -- looooootely pathetic.

These are the fools, by the way, who put out the glossy magazine bragging about how their billing systems are nearly compliant, and then in the teeeeeny tiiiiiiny paragraph hidden in the midst of their chest thumping, let on that *THEIR* electricity supplier is STILL WORKING on getting compliant.

I guess I'm going to be burning a lot of wood this winter.

In the dark.

Unless I can get by on the bile....

Grrrrrrrrr.......................

Tomorrow we start hitting up the competition, hopefully the time we pissed away *believing* the LIARS at Great Fakes will not have RF'd our chances of having a supply of propane for our generators.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should have acted sooner.

If I hadn't nearly died from iatrogenic "services" this summer, I probably would have.

Playing Constant Catch-Up is a bitch-and-a-half.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999

Answers

Did you try telling them you are planning to put in a propane hot water heater, a propane fireplace, etc next year and you need a large tank so you don't have to change it out later?

-- John (jh@NotReal.ca), December 01, 1999.

Actually, we told them the *truth* (apparently a faux pas when dealing with pathological liars): we intend to put in a propane water heater and kitchen stove.

The fools (don't ask me which, I lost count), informed me that they'd expect me to use 60 gallons a month normal usage, and would not top off the tank until it was down to 20% capacity. And remember, they can only *fill* them to *80%* capacity in the first place.

So when I told them that I'd be lucky to have a couple of hours of backup power -- after a few months of normal usage, with them *refusing* to top off as I went -- they said, "So what? You can just call us for a refill when your tank goes empty."

The more I think about it, the more disgusted I get.

It's like driving up to a gas station, and saying, "Fill 'er up," only to be told, "Sorry, that's a small car, and we don't think you need that much gas. Here's a gallon and a half."

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999.

"iatrogenic services," for the uninitiated, means traditional physician's treatment methinks

-- edu (org@mil.com), December 01, 1999.

Yup. Go in to have some precancerous polyps removed, and a week later, you're in the hospital being told that you're within two hours of dying from massive intestinal bleeding.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999.

Try Level Propane. I think they're might be crooks, low balling the competition before establishing a monopoly and raising rates, but they had the lowest price on tanks and there's not a lot of places that will sell a tank. $1200+tax for 1000 gal tank this past August.

As for renting, foooooorget it! No one wants to tie up a 1000 gal tank with a customer who doesn't use at least 1800 gallons of propane each year, or more.

-- Programmer Farmer (not@telling.com), December 01, 1999.

Ah, but they *said* they would -- with *no* rental fee, no usage fee.

Apparently they'll tell you what you want to hear in order to prevent you from going to the competition.

Scumbags are like that, after all.

There's another outfit that told my wife they'd install a 500 g. tank with a 60 yearly fee if we didn't use 300 gallons. They quoted a lower price on the propane too. Hopefully they'll still make good on that, but I'm NOT feeling comforted by the "13 Federal Days to go" counter.

The reason we were going to go with Grate Fakes Entropy was because they were the only one who said they'd put in a wet hose without any grief. Level was the only other one who was even willing to discuss it, and they demanded something like $2,000.

Of course, now that I realize what lying sacks of **** GFE is, I have no doubts that even if we *did* take their 12 ounce Giant Can, they'd have denied telling us they'd put in a wet hose.

Scumbags are like that.

I've guess I've got to get rid of this "just fell off the turnip wagon" look.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999.

Please, Ron.

I really DO sympathize with your predicament, but try to accept it with more patience, not for their sake, but for yours. You don't want to also visit the Cardiology Dep't. of your local hospital, do you? I hope and pray that this problem can be resolved to your satisfaction.

Keep us posted, and you'll be in our thoughts and prayers.

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 01, 1999.

After I don't know how many hours of going round and round with those lying morons, my wife said, "If these are the people that are supposed to keep the electricity running, we're screwed."

Yeah, it "gets to me". That's what happens when I find out that the *real* idiot was *me* for believing a pack of liars, while wasting *crucial* time, with only 13 Federal Days remaining...

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999.

Ron, if you need a thousand-gallon propane tank, and you can't get it in MI, then take a few days vacation time and drive a trailer down to GA. and buy one cheap and take it back. I've seen numerous big tanks for sale by individuals right here in my small town. They run about 1$/1gal. ratio. Few are prepping down here, and the propane co's are tripping all over each other selling tanks and propane too. Better yet, buy the tank/tanks, have them filled cheap down here, and drive the damn things back to your home up there. Cover em with a road tarp and nobody will be the wiser. Hell, contact me and I'll help you. I'm even pulling my anon. email on this one, so here's the real one.

-- doktorbob (doktorbob@mindspring.com), December 01, 1999.

Yo, Ron, sorry about yer gas troubles. I wheedled and begged my propane company to set up a 500 gallon tank last December. I only have a gas log right now, but when I told them I was going to put in a gas range in the basement, and actually had them run the line, they were more willing. I requested from them that they get the ball rolling on converting my generator to propane back in February. Yesterday --- YESTEREFFINGDAY -- we finally got the propane guy to come back out after I'd had the exhaust pipe lengthened so I can keep the genny in the shed with the door closed and we finally cranked her up. And she is way way way louder than I thought. The conversion guy was great -- an expat from Mass like me and a diehard Red Sox fan -- but the service sucked hard on that particular donkey appendage. Might just be the way propane providers are. today I got a bill with miscellaneous back charges with no explanation and the charge for the conversion -- $600, thank you. If they had put the paperwork in motion back in Feb when I asked them, the parts would have cost 1/3 what they eventually did, but since they spent most of the spring playing "Is this my ass or my elbow? Let's sniff it to make sure," I got socked with a $450 charge for parts rather than $150. Anyhowdyhooo-- sorry about the turmoil and the headache and the frustration. By the way, are you in Holland, MI?? I have a student from there, family name of Kukla. Jez wonderin'.

-- Kurt Ayau (Ayau@iwinet.com), December 01, 1999.

Doc Bob: I may just take you up on that if we don't get anywhere with the other couple of local outfits tomorrow.

Kurt: we were lucky (presuming we can get some steeeenkin' propane). I picked up two Onan 4KW 1800 RPM 2 cylinder propane gensets at a federal auction in Ludington for about $280 each. Fish and Wildlife was using them to stun lampreys.

We're a bit North of Holland -- we're about a half hour South of Ludington, on the "West Coast".

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 01, 1999.

Ron e- the spouse at tarir@chromcorp.com . Tell her the story see if she can get anything out of LEVEL. She knows where the bodies are but at that co that doesn't mean much (when you are the right hand person for the owner, and get the dreaded Sun night call, well.....)

Chuck

And if the e- is wrong (a possibility) e me at home and I'll see what i can get her to do

-- Chuck, anight driver@work (rienzoo@en.com), December 01, 1999.

Thanks, Chuck.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 02, 1999.

Ron,

Got any Farmers' Co-ops in the area? Check them out for leased tanks (often no charge for the tank, but they retain ownership) and propane prices. Or yellow pages under 'gas - propane.'

Be sure to let us know how this story ends...

Hey-- you weren't considering installing a propane furnace in the next couple of months, now, too, were you? Because you'd probably need a 320 or 500 gal tank instead of the 130 gal. they originally offered...

You could consider it right on through the tank install.

-- winter wondering (winterwondring@yahoo.com), December 02, 1999.

Ron, try Rural Gas. We were able to rent a 1000-gallon tank from them, and they converted all of the appliances as well. Send me a note if you have any trouble. We're not too far from Lansing, but Rural Gas should have an office near you.

-- Ann M. (hismckids@aol.com), December 03, 1999.