What kind of minister's reports do you preachers fill out monthly?

Mine has the usual stuff... weekly attendence figures, schedule of upcoming events, and one of them is "number of calls made"

(I usually have 20-30 calls per month)

Last meeting one of the elders handed me a monthly calendar, asking me to fill it out with how many calls each day, and "who I called" that day.

While I do keep track of who I called, and what day, I felt funny about this request. He said it wasn't to "check up on me" but rather to get an idea of "who is being called on" so that they can see where I need help, ie., so they could call on those not being visited by me.

What would you do if this request were made of you?

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Answers

My, oh my.....will miracles never cease!!!

I agree 100% with Nelta!!!

Here are some more of my thoughts Anon......(you can choose either one of these options).....

1) Tell the Elders you would be extremely happy to fill out the report....provided they do the same. Have each one of them submit a monthly report of the pastoral calls they have made that month. After all......pastoral calling comes more under their job definition....does it not???

2) Cut to the chase with them and say...."Alright gentlemen....let's not have this ruse of "wanting to help me out." Just be up front and tell me what it is I'm not doing. I'm a big boy. I can handle the constructive critcism....but don't hide behind a "concern for me" smoke screen. Let's just spit it out and get it on the table....let's pray about it....and I'll do my best to work with you."

3) Start looking for another church.

A couple more thoughts.....

This underscores why I don't like and don't, for the most part, submit reports. If I'm doing my job, and if the elders are involved in the church to the degree they should be, then they will know it. Reports are asked for to require minimal involvement on their part and then still give the impression "they have a handle on what's going on."

Roger Chambers use to say...."If as the preacher I'm not doing my job.....then I'll not tell the truth on the reports either."

Like in a marriage....when trust is lost.....you have lost everything in a working relationship with the elders.

Your elders have indicated they don't trust you.

By the way....it is good you keep your own records. Personally, I have a record of every call I have made since 1985....date....conversations....etc.....just a ready written record.

In 18 years of ministry.....I have NEVER been asked for it.

I'll be praying for you that God will give you wisdom.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Very well put Roy.....very well put.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Very well put Roy.....very well put. Your elders sound very much like the type I have had the privilege of working with in the past....and....work with now. Good men!!

Man.....so much Kingdom work to do....let's realize Jesus is in charge of the church...and all of us just get on with the business at hand.

Thanks!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Michael.....

No one suggested "bucking authority." Indeed, that is a "straw man" if ever I heard one.

Rebelling against God's duly ordained authority is very dangerous and anti-biblical.

You stated it well in the word "accountablity."

I take it a step further in the words "mutual accountablity"...i.e., the elders are as accountable to me as I am to them.

In fact, pressed further, the Scripture suggests that we are accoutable to each other as Christians.

So, with the thought of "mutual accountablity"....I suggest that the elders submit their reports as well....that is....if we are going to get into the report thing as they put it "to look out for the preacher." How about the many times the preacher is asked to account for the elders by the congregation?? How can he do it without a report??

I'm sorry...but I think Preacher Anon has the right to ask the real reason for the elders all of the sudden requiring the report. If their motives are pure.....it should be no problem.

Now....that being said...Preacher Anon should have informed us as to how long he has been in the ministry. I agree with you about young preachers coming out of college.

Having worked with more than a few "part-timers" and new "full- timers" over the years....I have noticed a decreasing work ethic.

I don't think it comes from laziness or impure motives. It comes from lack of "self discipline" and self discipline is something that must be taught. I've noticed, for the most part, these individuals come from homes where "mommy and daddy" were always there to do for them rather than making the kids learn on their own and do it.

So....I have found myself in the position of "monitoring" their activities. I hated it!!!....but knew it was necessary. And I always rejoiced when I saw good work habits developing and was able to back off.

However, for someone who has been in the ministry for a while....I think the reports are simply unneccesary and demeaning and they reak of the "hireling" mentality.

And....I stand by Roger Chambers statment...i.e., if a preacher is disonest enough to not do his job....he is also dishonest enough to "fudge" on the reports.

Now that being said....I think it ultimately comes down to "style." Personally, I could never, and will never work for an eldership who feels their #1 job is to keep tabs on the preacher.

However, I know there are other preachers who do not mind working under this mentality.

So in essence, I don't disagree with you....because it comes down to what we as evangelists are comfortable working with.

One more thing.....I often take afternoons off, most often during deer season. (Of course, I start most of my workdays at 4:30-5:30 AM).

I don't think the hours a preacher puts in are near as important as what he does during that time. I don't believe in "working hard"....I believe in working efficiently.

Most preachers worth their salt are "forced" by the very nature of the work to put in more than enough hours.

I still say this, however, (and we can go off on a tangent on this one), I think more preachers are guilty of working too many hours to the neglect of their family as their pursue the world's definition of success.

Thanks!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Roy.....

Pefectly said....absolutely perfect!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, November 28, 1999

Dear Anonymous,

Do you reckon they are checking up on how well you are doing THEIR job? The elders are to watch (teach and be examples to) for those they are *among*. What they have done in religion is hire someone to do their job and now THEIR job is to see how well those they hired to do their job is doing it.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Got's to say that I'm in agreement here. The only time I have ever submitted reports of what I have been doing in ministry were at the first congregation I served with ... as a "part time" minister (if there ever really is such a thing) while attending Bible college. It wasn't the elders who asked, it was the senior minister. And he asked only after I had been there over a year and a half.

It wasn't because he didn't trust me to do what I was supposed to do. In fact, I was doing over and above what was expected of a part-time youth minister. I never really found the base reason for his demand, but it was funny that the elders agreed that I turn in a weekly report ... provided the senior minister do the same. That shut him up fairly quickly.

I agree that there must be mutual oversight ... the elders can help you do what you have been called to do, and you can help them with what God set them apart to do.

Do you have meetings with the elders alone ... not a board meeting? If so, time should be spent discussing all the calls everyone has made, and the spiritual needs of the flock. This will help them to see that it is not just the preacher who visits, but the shepherds who are called to do just that.

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

What a shame on your elders. I have to brag on our elders at RGCC. They have never requested any kind of report in the almost 12 years that we have been together. We do communicate on what we are doing each week as we meet in a leadership meeting, but no official reports on whom or when I call. We both (elders/evangelist) freely admit that we are not doing what we could do, but then who is. My ministry includes taking care of my immediate family and my own needs as well as being there for others.

I never cease to be amazed at how the churches consider what kind of job the minister is doing by how many calls/hospital/new member/old memeber/prospects and any other type of calls that he makes during each and every single day. They consider what kind of job that I am doing by the number of attendance on Sunday Morning.

What a mess the church is in with our numbers game. It reminds me of a ditch digger telling the preacher how to preach. Nothing agianst ditch diggers either. Think of the reasoning behind the request. Many elders play the control game or being boss over the congregation, espeically the preacher. The preacher is one of the few jobs that has to have a self starter in that ministry and yet the minister has as many bosses as their are members of the congregation. At least they think that they are your boss.

I won't adventure to tell you what to do, but if you are doing what you believe the bible to be teaching in your ministry, then stand firm if you are willing to suffer those consequences for saying no to the report business. You might ask this gentleman if this is his doings or the whole group of elders idea. That in itself will tell you who is behind it. If it is him alone, then ask the whole group about it and tell them your honest thoughts about it. If he is a controling type person, then it will put a slow-down to his little escpades.

If you can, you might ask one of the elders to go with you everytime you make a call and see if that curbs their quest for what you are doing.

My prayers go with you and your elders.

God bless!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Hope you all had a Happy Thanksgiving gentlemen. I must say that this is an area that I part in thought with Danny Gabbard and others who have expressed their thoughts on the list.

Accountability is something that the RM has lost. We arrogantly say we are accountable to Christ alone and yet many preachers never visit, never wipe the brow of the sick in the church they serve...that is a sad thing. What I hear coming from some of you is a "bucking" of authority under the guise of a high brow academic argument that is mostly straw man.

Sure the elders are to do the work I do as well. But me filling out a report (even at their request) is something that works both ways. It keeps them quite in tune with what I am doing, and if some numskull decides to pick a fight with the preacher and wants to say I am not doing my job - the elders know exactly what I am and am not doing. It protects me. It also, as I have already said, keeps me accountable.

Let's face it gentlemen, all of us preachers know that there is an inherent temptation in our work by the very nature of the ministry to take in a movie or take the afternoon off.

I know because before I kept my own self accountable, I did those things too much. (And don't get me wrong I am not such a scrooge to say that one can never do those things). But there is a dynamic and we can not deny it, that the new young buck preachers coming out of our Bible Colleges are not ones that by and large have a good work ethic.

These type of measures help us all - they are not necessarily the enemy of gospel proclamation and the advancement of the kingdom. They can make ministry much more efficient and a safeguard from the trappings of the Evil One.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

OK, Mr. Demastus, point taken...

How detailed, then, are your reports?

Do you submit daily details as to WHO you visited each day?

Or do you just give a monthly total?

-- Anonymous, November 27, 1999

Preaches should not work for the elders or for the church, they should work with them. We all work for Christ. Working with the church is biblical. I know, I am probably being picky, but we must change our mind set toward our function and the function of the church if we ever want to set in order those things are not in order.

-- Anonymous, November 28, 1999