A friend of mine, who is trying to retire early, sent me the following story. To me, it says so much about the American mindset. I asked myself:

Why is it American's have to take the long way around - power? need for challenge? guilt from a societal work ethic? societal definition of success? security/need to control in response to uncertainty? Perhaps it is because many of our ancestors came from colder climates where survival demanded greater effort...?

What is it that we might change if we would want it to be otherwise?

What would we lose and what would we gain by embracing different values?

The story:

An American Investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village. When a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large tallow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied "Only a little while."

The American then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch morefish.

The Mexican said "I have enough to support his family's needs."

The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of yourtime."

The fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos.I have a full and busy life."

The American was unsettled. He announced "I have a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing, and, with the proceeds, you could buy a bigger boat. With the money you make from the bigger boat you could buy several boats, eventually a fleet of your own fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you can run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But how long will this all take."

To which the American replied, "About 15-20 years."

The fisherman paused and asked, "But what then?"

The American laughed and said: "That's the best part. When the time is right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions."

The fisherman looked at the American. "Then what?"

The America said, "Then you would retire, move to a small Mexican coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, playwith your children, take siesta with your wife, and then stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitarwith your amigos.":)

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), November 18, 1999

Answers

Marsh -

I think part of the problem with our society is that we've bought into a myth which started before we ever gained independence from England. The myth says that with the right connnections, work strategies, etc. we can all become rich. Now, when you remember that those who had power then (as well as those who have power now) were the ones who owned lots of land, had political connections, and owned slaves, you can understand that in order to feel any power over one's own destiny was to have wealth, regardless of how that wealth manifested itself. Yes, I know we don't have legal slavery anymore, but does that really constitute it's not being a reality. Aren't most Americans slaves to their jobs, their homes, their clubs, their cars, all of their social status (form whatever source)? And if you look at it from a different perspective there really is still some slavery in this country, even though we pay the slave. What about the personal servants who take care of people's homes, gardens, cars, etc., who are paid by the owner of those items? Those servants are only doing the same jobs done by peasants, serfs, and slaves for hundreds of years. What about migrant workers? Those are the real slaves and there are hundreds of thousands of them today who live in filth and poverty just so we have those delicacies of food on the table like lettuce which has to be picked by hand and most Americans simply won't do the work.

The mind set was brought with us from Europe when our ancestors came to this land and we've never truly bothered to find a better way. The Native peoples tried many times to teach us a different way, but we wouldn't hear of it. After all, they were heathens, don't you know. They couldn't possibly know anything of value. That's part of the reason the settlers of Jamestown died in such numbers. This I know because my ancestors were some of the first in Jamestown. And they didn't pay for the passage either.

I guess what I'm really saying is that when one's sense of worth and meaning of life boils down to how much money is in the bank, be it tin can or vault, and how many "important" people one knows, and what others think of us, how could we be any different as a society. Power does play a large part in this. The power of status. It's always behind everything we do whether we acknowledge it or not.

Okay, that's enough on the soapbox. Have a good one.

Claudette

-- Claudette (laclaud@cybertrails.com), November 18, 1999.

The point is, we CAN all become rich...but we need to carefully evaluate what rich really is... To me, it is a relationship with the Lord, the ability to live in a nice home on a tropical island, a loving wife, a big friendly mutt, eating garden fresh fruit, snorkeling and diving in crystal clear water, sailing a responsive sailboat, and spending time with my grandchildren.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), November 18, 1999.

Actually, the really CRAZY thing is that today it wouldn't take 15-20 years. He should just create a Website called mexicanfish.com, immediately announce an IPO, and become rich straight away (yes, I read Doonesbury too).

-- Risteard MacThomais (uachtaran@ireland.com), November 19, 1999.

The English settlements in Virginia and all the Spanish and Portuguese settlements in South America ere based on the search for money (gold), it was the Christian settlements in Plymouth and Boston that me for Religious freedom, that is a search for God, not gold.

Now we have tossed out all Ten Commandments in our lust for money.

*****snip/ The mind set was brought with us from Europe when our ancestors came to this land and we've never truly bothered to find a better way. The Native peoples tried many times to teach us a differentway, but we wouldn't hear of it. After all, they were heathens, don't you know. They couldn't possibly know anything of value. That's part of the reason the settlers of Jamestown died in such numbers. This I know because my ancestors were some of the first in Jamestown. And they didnt pay for the passage either. end snip****

Your pagan ancestors in Virginia stole corn from the Orientals who had migrated here earlier, the Christians grew their own. And then they gave: Thanksgiving.

Harvey

-- Harvey Fartz (Harvey_Fartz@Hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

Marsh - If you want to read someone who agrees with you, try Philip Wylie's "A Generation of Vipers". Written in 1942, it still holds today. A sample:

"Our politics, our business-little and big, our professions, our labor, are smitten in every facet with a corruption occasioned by reckless determination to make not just a reasonable profit but all the profit that can be wrung from every enterprise. Our commonest man, emulating his superiors, forges ahead with a brick on the safety valve of his conscience. Think over your morning newspaper in that light."

-- Amy Leone (leoneamy@aol.com), November 23, 1999.

Thank you for your comments! Gave me some food for thought.

Was interested that no one hit upon a possible gender difference that could effect motivation. As a woman, I find myself very motivated by the need for security for myself and my children. The phsychological comfort of "owning" a home is very important to me. In fact, the negative impact of y2k on my security equillibrium motivated me into preparation like Richard Dryfuss character in "Close Encounters."

Perhaps women are more prone to "control" issues and vulnerabilities, or maybe it is just me. Although my children are almost grown, there was this drive to ensure that I had it within my control to continue to provide for them. (I would advise no one to get in my way when I am on such a mission - lol.) I believe many women have learned to redirect this into "skills" to "motivate" other people into doing whatever is needed to help them feel secure. Long ago, I decided that I would abandon that approach and push myself to do whatever was necessary to fullfill those needs.

I think some men are more comfortable with insecurity and risk. Particularly young men appear to be attracted to extreme sports. Some men with families seem to have the same strong protective drives as provider as I experience. I will admit, that once you get on top of the fear, there is a rush in successfully meeting the challenge.

Others (male and female) seem to have morphed these drives into power trips of control over others and sexual dominance. At such point, it becomes a neurosis, in my opinion.

Just another perspective on what may make people tick.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), November 23, 1999.

Hi all!

Wow! Makes one sit down and think again eh? Life (and my Savior) has taught me that riches are not of this earth, where, in reality, we cannot control much of anything.

Mad Monk is right. For me it's my beautiful girlfriend, my good son, and her good son, a future, mountaineering and bowhunting!

My mansion is under construction in the very same place my eternal reward lies!

Praise the Lord!

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), November 23, 1999.

Whether you live in a little fishing villiage in Mexico or run with the pack on Wall Street, the secret is personal values...which are not necessarily defined by either lifestyle. Security can't be bought...ask the rich man dieing of cancer, and peace of mind doesn't necessarily come from the "simple life"...ask the poor man who has to watch a child suffer from an illness that might be cured if he just had the money to pay for the medical care. (Ooops, poor example...this is not about socialized medicine.)

Many of the things we value in our lives...like better medical care, lower infant mortality rates, expanded world travel opportunities, the internet, come from the accummulation of wealth. And I believe that, as individuals, our quality of life in this up-ward? spiral depends on our ability to find our soul in every experience here on this earth. We must know what we stand for, rather than what we stand against. All of the spiritual traditions talk about some form of "the kingdom of heaven" is spread out before you if you will just see it.

The debate about development is over. "Small is Beautiful" lost. But there is still spirit in the world. Even in the developed world. Excuse me for going on so...But your discussion inspired me.

Warm regards, Lynn

-- Lynn McQueen (lynnmcq@webtv.net), November 24, 1999.

It's a good thing the American & the Mexican didn't discuss things like their respective life expectancies, or the health of their children, or what kind of medical care they could expect to receive in the event of an accident.

For example, it might have spoiled that cute little story to mention that the Mexican could reasonably expect to lose a certain number of children to diseases that don't exist in the US.

When comparing the US to other countries it's always important to leave out certain things...!

-- just (a@little.thought), November 24, 1999.

Thanks for starting this thread,Marsh. Stimulating as aways. The story says alot about the US(obviously). The well-to-do gringo totally has THE religion-moneyworship-that so many Americans emulate. This is usually acompanied by an insufferable superiority complex. "How can these people stand to live this way? I can save them",he thinks. Part of him just doesn't get it. He just can't believe that anyone could possibly be happy except in following a path like his. No one is romanticizing life in 3rd world countries-sure people don't live as long-and they don't have a high standard of living,but maybe to some it's not the be all and end all. Some people would really rather work at producing their food,fuel and the direct needs of their life,instead of being a cog in a huge machine,not liking their work,stressed out and worried sick that they don't appear successful enough. One of the main stories of the last few hundred years is people assuming their own life is THE ONLY WAY,and shoving it down other's throats by whatever means necessary. It doesn't lead me to a real positive conclusion about how Americans will cope with y2k if in fact the s--- does hit the fan. If we get a 7 or higher there wouldn't be much doubt in my mind which of the two-Mexican or gringo would fare better-Howie s--- does hit the fan. spending hours commuting,being stressed out and worried that they don't appear sucessful enough.

-- Howie (biggguy79@hotmail.com), November 24, 1999.

Sorry,that last sentence got all goofed up and out of sequence-Howie

-- Howie (biggguy79@hotmail.com), November 25, 1999.