I have two slides I'd like to print in B&W, and I'd like to use traditional B&W papers. Does anyone have details on a technique I can use to reverse the paper? I remember reading something about a bleach procedure to do this, but I can't find the reference...

-- John O'Connell (joconnell@adelphia.net), November 15, 1999

Answers

I would make a 4x5 internegative.

-- Jeff White (zonie@computer-concepts.com), November 15, 1999.

Tetenal had a kit, paper and developer for positive-printing. I believe they still have.

-- Lot Wouda (lotw@wxs.nl), November 15, 1999.

Tetenal had a kit, paper and developer for positive-printing. I believe they still have. see:

http://www.tetenal.com

-- Lot Wouda (lotw@wxs.nl), November 15, 1999.

Yes, cf. page 85 from the product info brochure downloadable via Acrobat Reader under the heading Product Info.

-- Lot Wouda (lotw@wxs.nl), November 15, 1999.

Before spending money on chemistry you need only once, you might check whether a quick-and-dirty method works: Print the slide to get a paper negative. Contact-print this on b&w paper. If the quality is OK, you've found your solution.

If there are problems with the tonality (because of the spectral sensitivity of b&w paper) try using a panchromatic paper (such as Kodak Panalure or Forte Equitone).

If all else fails, try the more sophisticated methods involving an internegative.

Of course, there is also Tetenal's reversal kit, but this, too, is designed for copying b&w slides rather than colour.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), November 16, 1999.

The Tetenal kit is made for colour slides -> B&W prints (not that I'm a stockholder of Tetenal).

-- Lot Wouda (lotw@wxs.nl), November 16, 1999.

It is not too difficult to make a BW negative - contact print on a piece of 35 mm film or, as already said, use enlarger and make a negative on 4x5" film or on a piece of 120 film. Years ago I used to make BW prints from slides for a little magazine. I had a 4x5 film holder with a piece of white paper in it - I could focus with it. Then I swithed loaded holder in place, opened it and made the exposure, closed cassette etc. You can expose 20 negatives in an hour - developing and printing is another story. Using color enlarger you can even control the contrast by using color filtration, if you like to elaborate - i.e. yellow will make skies darker etc.

-- Sakari Mdkeld (sakari.makela@koulut.vantaa.fi), November 18, 1999.

I tried the paper negative route. It might be fine for E100S or Astia, but for Velvia it's probably a no-go. I exposed onto Ilford Multigrade on contrast 00 -- the lowest contrast paper I've used -- and contact printed the paper negative on the same paper, same contrast. The shadow detail is just not there to make the image I have on the slide -- and this is about the lowest contrast Velvia slide I have.

Using higher contrasts was very disappointing. And Panalure, from my experience, is a fairly contrasty paper. I'll probably try a more complex dodging & burning scheme first, but I think the Tetenal kit sounds more promising. Thanks!

-- John O'Connell (joconnell@adelphia.net), November 19, 1999.

John, If its only two slides, and you don't anticipate doing more, then just take them to a pro lab for a good internegative. If, on the other hand, you plan to do a lot of B&W printing from transparencies, then doing your own internegatives is the way to go. For a long time I did all my images as slides (35mm), and then decided which ones I wanted to make into B&W prints. I created either 2x3 or 4x5 internegatives on panchormatic film, often panatomic X. This did three things. First it permitted me to work with one camera instead of two without worrying whether the final product would be color or B&W. Second, it gave me an easily printed negative to work with, and third, it gave me lots of control over the internegative. I could use filters to shift the grayscale/color balance crop the image, contol contrast, etc. Sometimes I would make several internegs of a single slide to see what I liked best. Its a great way to control your negative. The down side is that you will have a learning curve as you "calibrate" your slides, filters, enlarger, exposure and technique, and you will spend lots of money on sheet film. I wish I had the darkroom to do it now.

-- Richard Newman (rnewman@snip.net), November 19, 1999.

John, The issues of cost and acquiring chemicals for two or three prints notwithstanding, I thought I'd share a print reversal developer formula that I acquired somewhere along the way of finding print developers that suited my needs. I've not tried it so I cannot vouch for how well it would work in your case.

The process is as follows:

First Developer 60-90 sec Rinse 30 sec Bleach R-9 30-60 sec Clear CB-1 30 sec Rinse 30 sec Expose to light with 40W bulb for 5-10 sec at 12 inches Second developer- 30-60 sec Fix-- 30-60 sec Wash To your liking

Apparently an out of print Kodak Publication (G-14) recommends a high contrast developer such as D-88; however, my notes indicate that Dektol or D-72 diluted 1:1 would likely work as well during both development phases. Also for a sepiea toned print, you can skip the light exposure and use a sulfide redeveloper (sodium sulfide 20gm in water to make 1L).

Bleach R-9: Water 800 mL Potassium Dichromate 9.5 gm Sodium Bisulfate 66 gm Water to make 1L

Clear CB-1: Sodium sulfite 90gm Water to make 1L

I appreciate hearing about the results if you should give this try.

-- Wes Sechler (sechlerw@missouri.edu), November 21, 1999.

Black and White Negatives from Color Transparancies Choose a sharp slide that is normally exposed. A slightlu dar slide will also work but an ocer exposed or light slide will not work as the highlights lack printable detail.

1. Place transparancy in negative carrier of enlarger with emulsion up. Mask off any unused portion of the negative carrier image to reduce stray light. Stray light reduces image contrast.

2. a.)Tri-X Pan Professional sheet film with HC-110 diluted 1:9 @ 68F for 5 minutes.

b.)T-max 100 sheet film; CAUTION; this film builds up contrast very easily but is still an excellent choice because of the long straight line portion of the H&D curve. Development time is critical as the highlights will tend to have too much contrast to print well.

You can also use Tri-X Pan Professional sheet film with HC-110 diluted 1:9 @ 68F for 5 minutes.

Developer - A. D-23, develop for 7 minutes @ 68F in bath (A) and 3 minutes in bath (B).

B. Rodinal, 1:75 dilution @ 68F for 10 minutes.

C. HC-110, 1:14 dilution @ 68F for 9 minutes.

3. Exposure times can be determined by a fixed increment test strip. For a 35mm slide to a 4x5 internegative, try as a starting point, f/22 @ 3 second increments fior at least 8-10 increments. If possible place the increment through a highlight and a shadow area each time.

4. Contrast filters can be used to change the relative brightness of subjects contained in the transparacy so that the subject with a color similar to the filter color will appear lighter and the colors that are blocked by the filter will appear darker in the final print. This produces a similar effect as when the filters are used on the camera lens when the subject was photographed. Red, orange and yellow filters will darken blue skies, green filters will lighten foliage, etc. If the filter was not employed when cutting the test strip remember to use the filter factor when exposing the print.

-- Mike (mkravit@kravit.net), December 26, 1999.

i realize this query is about two months old, still, i have a suggestion: do it digitally. scan the slide, desaturate it in photoshop, and then have a photolab do a high quality output either inkjet or one of those new-fangled things that outputs to actual photographic paper. it does something like shoot micro-sized points of light--from three different colored lasers, i think--onto photographic paper, which you then process normally. a friend of mine has used the process for some color commercial work, but i know it can be used for black and white too.

anyhow, i hope i'm not totally coming from left field here.

--brad daly

-- brad daly (bwdaly@scott.net), January 10, 2000.

Last year I was told by a Tetenal person that the Tetenal kit has been discontinued. At least in Germany that is.

Still, good luck. Andreas

-- Andreas Tretow (tretow@snafu.de), January 19, 2000.

I am planning to do this, but haven't yet. I plan to use a color enlarging head as the light source, using a negative carrier to hold the slide, and use my 35mm SLR as a copy camera. I've got a Nikon macro lens, and I don't think I can do any better optically than this. Even my enlarging lenses aren't as corrected for 1:1 duplication.

I can meter through the lens, and the color head will let me filter to my liking. If I enlarge onto sheet film instead, the exposure times will be through trial and error. With my approach, I can shoot 36 copies at a time and bracket.

I got the idea from Saunders enlarger brochure.

-- Charlie (charlie_strack@sti.com), January 21, 2000.

Here's one more option for consideration. There's a company called Photo Warehouse in Oxnard, CA (1-800-922-5484) that sells a b&w direct positive paper. I believe this paper is primarily intended for graphic arts applications; it is somewhat contrasty. However, I have found that if I give the paper a pre-exposure flash to room light for about 1/2 to 1 second, it brings the contrast down a good bit. It can be processed in any standard b&w chemistry. It's the simplest method I have found for making a b&w print from a color slide and it overcomes all the image quality loss associated with making internegatives. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has experience with using this paper.

-- Larry Rudy (ljrgcr@cetlink.net), February 18, 2000.