I got a question for ya.....

Why is it that when someone asks "How's it going in your ministry?" the response is always a report on NUMBERS??? "Oh we had 10,000 in attendance last week.....up from 5,000 last year!!"

Imagine the report the Apostle Paul would have given if you asked him that question.....

"Well right now I'm in prison....last week the people of the town threw me out and stoned me...so I really can't go back there and preach this week."

"Alright Danny.....what about your report?"

OK....here goes.....I'm glad to be a part of a congregation where I am allowed to preach the gospel every Sunday. They are the most loving congregation I have ever been a part of. People are studying their Bible in depth like never before. We now have Wed. Family Suppers to go along with Bible study and more and more people are coming to that. I just finished about a 6 week study on "Restoration History" that people were thrilled with. In January I start teaching part time at a Bible College. The Elders are good solid men who love the church....and have been committed to it for a long time. God was simply good to me by allowing me to serve here.

But the greatest thing in my life that is happening is my family. My daughter back in Florida continues to be happily married. My middle son Danny (14 now)....is growing up to be just the kind of man that I like. (BTW....he killed a nice buck with his bow....all on his own this year.) People come up to my wife and I all the time and comment on the excellent behavior of our children. Seth is the apple of my eye. To him.....everything in life is an adventure.....be it Lego's....or a trip down to the creek. All my children love Jesus and desire to serve Him faithfully. Danny was asked by one of the Elders to pray in the Sunday evening service last week. He was honored.

My wife of 22 years continues to be the greatest thing in my life that God ever gave me.

I could go on guys and gals.....and never mention numbers in the church.

In fact, if I want to hear a numbers report, I'll go to the Mormons....theirs are always more impressive.

So....the next time someone asks...."How's it going??".....from my perspective....tell me about the things that matter.

Oh....by the way....the church paid to have the driveway of the parsonage paved.....man that was great!!!

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Answers

Struck a little nerve huh Duane???

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

I would point out.....that the church that Jesus had the greatest commendation for in the book of Revelation was the smallest church....numbers wise (i.e., the church at Philadelphia).

And Duane....that business about citing the book of Acts because the Holy Spirit cares about numbers.....please!

If he did....why didn't he count the women too??

Let's be perfectly honest.....we like to cite numbers because that is how success is defined in the brotherhood and we want to be accepted.

And yes....this is different from the beginning of our movement when success was defined as "somone who really knew the word and preached it."

I think everyone of us can think of men that we admire....who are great theologians and great speakers....who will never speak at the NACC. Why?? Because their church (if they have one) does not run 1,000.

Again....put all of this in perspective by looking at the Apostle Paul's resume...."Been imprisoned twice, caused numerous riots in cities, have been thrown out of town for preaching in at least two places"...etc...etc. (Would this man speak at the N.A.C.C.??)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Ben.....

40 years from now when the difference between your church and the Baptist church is the difference between "twiddly dee" and "twiddly dum"......we'll all know why.

-- Anonymous, November 14, 1999

Dear PYBuck12pt@cs.com:

A 6 week study on Restoration History?

Your son is how old? 14?

Your wife of 22 years?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Ouch!

I agree, generally. Increasing numbers don't indicate faithfulness. But "counting" in and of itself is not a bad thing, as long as it is not taken to extremes...1000 people saved is better than 10 people saved. As long as they really are saved.

Apparently the Holy Spirit was at least "into numbers" enough to tell us that about 3,000 were saved at Pentecost.... and 5,000 were fed by Jesus. Low numbers are recorded too. Eight were saved by the ark (or the water!)

Some people can go to one extreme and say, "Look at our BIG numbers! We must be doing God's Will...." which is of course, wrong. But it would also be wrong to observe NO growth, or little growth, and rationalize our failure by saying, "Well, God doesnt care about numbers!"

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Reporting numbers can be good and it can be bad. In order to keep it in perspective, whenever membership numbers, baptism numbers, etc. got reported at my last church (a new church plant where the numbers were only given to the leadership team, which I was on), the senior evangelist would always say "we count people, because people count". That always made sure we put the numbers in the right light. It's not the number, but the people and lives changed that the number represents.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Any church that spends 6 weeks or more teaching on the restoration movement really knows how to waste people's time.

Just be the church, for cryin out loud. Teach the Bible on Sunday morning (or whenever you did that).

Enough about the 'forefathers'; teach Jesus Christ.

Ben

-- Anonymous, November 13, 1999

Ben...

I am afraid you have fallen victim to the modern day educators'style of utilitarian education. (Teaching only what is "seemingly" useful at the time.) During the Neopoleonic wars the near ruined Prussian Nation realized that Nepoleon was not the real enemy but their ignorance of history. More examples could be sighted from Rome to 20th century Germany. The same is true for the church. You've heard the old cliche "Those who don't study history are destined to repeat it?" Nations are one thing but eternal salvation is far more important. Those of us who teach must take our responsibilty more seriously as "we will be judged more strictly." James 3:1

-- Anonymous, November 15, 1999

I think I will have to agree with Danny and Jenny here. The glaring lack of knowledge on the part of our churchmembers

-- Anonymous, December 03, 1999

Ooops. Sorry, my video messed up for some reason, and I wasnt able to finish.

As I was about to say, there is a glaring deficiency in the knowledge churchmembers have about the history, and yes, even traditions, of the church. This knowledge is what can prevent the exodus of members of fundamental churches to the Mormons or other groups. "Growing up in church" isnt a shield from deception. Knowledge is.

In the early church, which didn't have books as readily available as we do, to preserve othodoxy of belief each believer was required to have memorized a certain amount of information as a prerequisite for membership. This body of knowledge became known as the catechism. Purity of the church and faith would be guaranteed because each individual knew the basic tenets of their faith and could not be swayed by falsehood. Membership in the modern church has no such requirement. We expect for new members to voluntarily attend a new members class, but as church leaders we know that this does not always happen. Unless we as the leadership teach the subjects that they need to know, we must expect that they will on their own seek out this information. Experience has taught me that this usually does not happen.

Teaching the Bible is essential and vital. But teaching history of the church is also. (Personally, I think the next major emphasis besides Bible is Apologetics, but that is a different topic.) Our congregations need to know the "whys" of our beliefs. We teach in Baptist churches that immersion is the correct method of baptism. Put yourself in the place of the new member in the pew. Why do we believe that? And how did that sprinkling stuff come about? Why is it an error according to our beliefs? I have seen postings concerning "neo-orthodoxy." Well, if I am an average church member, how will I know what neo-orthodoxy is? Chances are very good that the average attendee doesnt know what orthodoxy is! It should not be a surprise that a large number of converts to the Mormons come from Baptist churches. If our members do not know what they are supposed to be believing, then they will be easily swayed by others.

History of the church isn't a "dead" subject. It is important. We must remember why there was a Reformation, and the events that triggered it. We do not have the luxury in this evil age we live in to be uninformed.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 1999