With the start of a new congregation "looming" in the near future here in Indiana, PA, how about some help on this. What is the best way for elders to be selected?

I am not interested in how established ocngregations select / elect / ??? their elders. That is a different matter, which must involve, to some degree, the evangelist, present elders, congregation at large. Some do this well, some don't. Some do it biblically, some don't.

I am interested in the best way to set apart men in a new congregation. The new congregation will not be set up under the spiritual guidance of any other congregation ... it is a new work in an area where there are no other Christian Church / Church of Christ.

Now, I certainly understand that it is God who makes men elders ... not the congregation who "votes" or ???? It is our job to notice those men who God has set apart in this way.

I think of how Paul instructed Timothy, the evangelist, to set apart elders in the congregations he was helping to get started. I certainly have no problem with this, but want to be sure I understand that passage correctly.

Any help here, folks?

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, November 05, 1999

Answers

Darrell.....

You know you and I have had some lengthy discussions on this.

After 18 years in the ministry I have come to this conclusion....it really doesn't make a difference how it is done....how clean you try to keep it.....you are going to end up with bad men being elders.

Evidence......Acts 20.....hand appointed elders by the apostle Paul himself.....and what does Paul say before he leaves them...."some will arise among you speaking perverse things."

We come up with all these grand schemes (noble though they may be)....in order to strive to keep the eldership pure.

I'm saying.....it don't matter.

I've spent 18 years of my ministry fighting by-laws, traditions, elections, politics....etc.

I've decided....I ain't gonna do it no more. Whatever way the congregation I serve at (or will serve at) decides they want to put elders in office.....that's fine.

It's kind of like.....whatever I get dealt with....that's what I'll play with. I'll serve as long as I can and when I can't respect the men that are currently serving anymore....then I'll move on.

I've decided to spend my remaining 25 years of ministry (and I'm going to make it if it kills me) just focusing on the needs of individuals and helping them in their walk with the Lord. I'll leave the politics up the Lord.

Know this isn't much help.....but....thought I would share it anyway.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 1999

I started to respond to this before but got kicked off line, so I will try again. Sounds like you are right on target with you scriptural reasoning. I spent most of my last 45 years doing exactly what you are talking about. If God has called someone to be a Pastor (Elder) in the Lords church, you will know it, because he will evidence to you the desire through your course of Preaching and Teaching. He will also evidence the credentials of his calling at which time you should call a meeting of the congregation for presentation and confirmation. At this meeting, present him to the congregation according to His Desire. You can tell the congregation at on onset that you have examined him, and any questions you might have had that were taken care of. The congregation then should be allow to have the opportunity to ask him anything they want. To which he is to reply. Following that he should also be allowed to ask the congregation any question that is on his heart. eg. Will you pray for me, etc. If all appears in good order, then you should ask the congregation to raise their hands in corfirmation of Gods Calling. You will know if God is in it or not. More to follow on ordination. thank you.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 1999

Following the confirmation of the congregation you are ready to ordain Him into the Work God has called him for. I would suggest that you make sure you have a plurality (my opinion, is three at least) I had to wait an additional year to have three once, but it was well worth it. It was a great three-fold cord. Anyway, after proper preparations for the ordination (Time of prayer/fasting)and necessary edification you should have no problem and the Church shouldnt have either. Any questions, give me a shout.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 1999

Why not do it like the Scriptures say to do. Evangelist, preacher appoints the elders in every church(Titus 1:5). Why do we suppose I & II Timothy and Titus were written to preachers, to set things in order that are not in order. These letters to preachers tell of what God wants in His elders. I don't know of a place where elders appoint elders, but preachers do. Elders appoint(ordain) preachers. Yes, preachers need the support of the congregation, but most of all we need to do this God's way, not what is done in the public by majority rules.

I know that this goes against the grain, but it is well worth it in the long run.

God bless.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 1999

Roy -- I believe you are absolutly correct. Not only should the evangelist select the elders in a new congregation, but he is the one charged to select the elders in established congregations as well. How he goes about that is not set aside in Scripture, and he could, and maybe should, use the spiritual guidance of the established elders in the process. And, I don't see any problem with the congregation having some say ... but I am catagorically against "voting" a man in as elder. How about this for an established congregations:

1. A need exists for new elder(s) to be set apart. 2. Evangelist looks to congregation for man (men) who are seen in the guidelines set apart in I&II Tim and Titus. (I don't hold those as qualifications, but guidelines ... when you look at a man who is an elder, he should reflect those guidelines in his life). 3. Evangelist works with the other leaders (elders) in communicating with the new man. 4. If the evangelist and the current elders can't see any reason why God has not called this new man to be an elder, then they present the man to the congregation. 5. The congregation is givin a reasonable amount of time (a month?) to get back with the evangelist or the current elders if they know of a reason why the new man shouldn't be an elder. 6. If something is brought up, it is checked out. If true, or a possible problem, evangelist and elders work through it. If not true, or not a problem, process continues. 7. At the designated time the new man is set apart as an elder.

This way, the congregation has a part in the process without voting. After all, someone in the congregation may be aware of a problem that not even the current elders or evangelist is aware of.

Also, the current elders have a part. Keeps them involved.

Just a thought ... what about you?

Darrell Combs

-- Anonymous, November 06, 1999

Of course, this all urges one to ask the question, "Who's in charge here?" Do the elders answer to the minister/evangelist? Does the minister/evangelist answer to the elders? Do the elders hire and fire the minister/evangelist, and does he "dis"-appoint them if he feels they need to step aside? Does the minister/evangelist appoint the elders and then say, "Okay, guys, you're my boss now." Give me a chain of authority here.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 1999

Hey -- how about having Jesus in charge, and let Him be the boss, and we all "work" for him? Novel thought, don't ya think?!?!?!?! Too many congregations have problems with this 'cause everyone things THEY should be in charge. Had an elder at my last congregation make the blanket statement that "No preacher was going to rebuke him, 'cause he was an elder." Didn't matter that he openly confessed to me and the other elders how he had lied to the congregation about some things. He was the elder, he was the boss, and no preacher was going to rebuke him. See the problem.

So, how about a leadership team, which would include the ministers and the elders. They work TOGETHER rather than for each other. The ministers are accountable to the elders, and the elders are accountable to the ministers, and both are accountable to each other and the Jesus.

If more congregations would adopt a leadership team policy, which is biblical, then there wouldn't be the problem of "who's in charge." Both working as servant leaders, rather than "I'm in charge, you answer to me" mentality.

As for "dis-appointing" elders, sad to say, but the Bible doesn't seem to speak specifically on that. Yet, once a man no longer lives and serves as an elder should live and serve, he more or less removes himself from leadership ... so yes, the evangelist should be able to notice this and take action, as should the other elders. And the congregation, if they notice this, could bring it to the attention of the leaders so they could take needed action.

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, November 06, 1999

I guess I was not to clear in my former statements regarding the involvement of the congregation. I never used the word "Vote" or "elect". Neither did I intend it in any way. However, to have the afirmation of the congregation for the one God has called falls in line with scripture, does it not. Did not they stretch forth the hand as a sign of affirmation for the ones called. I never used the word "qualification" either. But the person of Gods calling will certainly have the credentials given in the letters to Evangelist. The Evangelist has to do what God has called him to do, But a wise person will bring the congregation with him and not be dictorial. Are we not to also lead the flock into all truth.I have also enjoined the congregation to join in Prayer and fasting along with myself and the one to be ordained. In Unity of the Spirit, we join our hearts, with those of our Brother, and Praise God, that He has called him. Gods speed.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 1999

"Hey -- how about having Jesus in charge, and let Him be the boss, and we all "work" for him? Novel thought, don't ya think?!?!?!?!"

Don't mean to be sacreligious or blasphemous here, but it's kinda hard to get Jesus' recomendation on which missionaries we'll support, or who we'll have as the speaker for the revival this fall, or whether Sunday School will happen before or after worship service, or whether we'll expand to two services to save room in our outdated building, or . . .

Yes, of course, in all we do in the church, Jesus is the head, the source, the ultimate guide, etc. However, he left most of the detailed decision-making to us, to try to listen to the Spirit's leading and determine the best or most appropriate way to do the things we do as a body.

So, the question stands -- or could even be modified -- if a minister/evengelist appoints elders, yet elders are to have authority, where do lines of authority fall and/or intermingle?

I think that both Jack and Darrell are on the right track(s) here.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 1999

Sam -- no doubt that we who are the church must make decisions about these particular things. I agree. My point above was that we don't worry about who is in charge, knowing that it is Jesus who is in charge. Let's work together as leaders, be we elders, preachers, or ???

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, November 07, 1999