Some of you may remember that 2 or 3 months ago Gary North had an item stating that the "date format" under Windows/NT would cause problems. The responses of course varied but the Pollys were out in force calling Dr. North nuts. I received this on 11/3/1999 from our IT people (State Of WI):

"When NT is initially installed the Short Date format (mm/dd/yy) is the default display format. Because dates displayed in this format do not assure Y2K compliance, DNR (Department Of Natural Resources) is changing all network PCs to display an eight digit date style (MM/DD/YYYY) on all workstations." ... ".... some people may see dates displayed as ###### on Excel spreadsheets ...."

More details can be found at http://issweb/beita_times/ They do discuss a couple real problems that cccured when the "Short Date" format was used. The newsletter I have in my hands IS NOT up at this site yet, but should be shortly (November newsletter).

Three points:

NORTH WAS RIGHT AGAIN.

THE STATE OF WI (compliant in July) IS STILL WORKING ON IT IN NOVEMBER (thats when Date Format will be changed).

THERE ARE MANY GOOD ORGS AND I.T. DEPTS SOLVING SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS.

I know this isn't a real big deal, but once again it shows that the Pollys were and are full of ****.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), November 04, 1999

Answers

I recall that thread, with some saying that North was perpetuating a "hoax". The bottom line, as I said at the time, is that there is massive confusion out there regarding what it takes to get your PC to be Y2K compliant. (Or, "compatible". Or, "ready". Or, something like that.)

The procedure that North referenced did no harm whatsoever (e.g., it was not like a virus), took just a few minutes to do, and seemed at face value to be quite reasonable. Whether it actually had the desired result of correcting the short date format in any permanent sense is, perhaps, still open to question. But, then again, virtually all Y2K compliance issues seemingly are still open to a lot of questions.

57 days.

Y2K CANNOT BE FIXED!

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), November 04, 1999.

Regarding the #'s for dates - try widening the column and you'll see the date.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), November 04, 1999.

---a big part of the problem is the world making bill gates rich by continuuing to buy, use and install non y2k compliant and inferior, bloated operating systems. Why someone would buy a piece of software or a hardware system in the late 90's that isn't y2k compliant is beyond me. Only thing I can think of is that it's intellectual inertia or something. Micro$cam stuff is crapola at best. it's designed to keep making money for bill gates as it's primary function it seems to me. the companies who rely on the ibm clone, microsoft, and related products will most likely be contenders for the Darwin Awards 2000

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 04, 1999.

Jon, I'm no expert but from experience every 'Windows' program has a built-in procedure to change the "date format". In Windows 98 try Control panel-Regional Settings-Date. I would hope everyone here has checked their system for this and made the necessary change. Very simple. However, if the BIO needs upgrading this is a further problem and Microsoft Update has a download for this available.

I may not be speaking to this specific situation, yet for those reading, our home computers must be checked for the same.

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), November 04, 1999.

I argree this wasn't/isn't a major problem, and widening the field will work in many cases such as Excel.

The main point is that many Pollys said it was ridiculous --- that as said above "its a hoax". The fact is that it IS a problem (admittedly small) and North was right in pointing it out. Not crazy as so many tried to laugh off.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), November 04, 1999.

The link above didn't work for me. Is it correct?

http://www.micros oft.com/y2k/hoax/y2khoax.htm

Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT Year 2000 e-mail hoax

---

There is a hoax email in circulation on the Internet concerning the Y2K compliance of Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT. There are various versions of this mail which resemble the text below:

    "Every copy of Windows will fail on January 1st unless you fix
    it now, to fix it..."      

1. Click on My Computer.
2. Click on Control Panel.
3. Click on Regional Settings.
4. Click on the Date tab. Where it says, Short Date Sample look and see if it shows a two Digit year. Of course it does. Thats the default setting for Windows 95, 98 and NT. This date RIGHT HERE is the date that feeds application software and WILL NOT rollover in the year 2000. It will rollover to 00.
5. Click on the button across from Short Date Style and select the option that shows mm/dd/yyyy. Be sure your selection has four Ys showing, not two.
6. Click Apply and then click on OK at the bottom. Easy enough to fix. However, every single installation of Windows worldwide is defaulted to fail Y2K rollover.

   "Thanks and have a great day"

Facts about Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT and Y2K...

• Microsoft Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT are compliant assuming all recommended actions specified in the respective compliance documents have been taken. The steps above are not required actions and do not have to be performed in order to obtain compliance.
• The short date format style in Regional Settings is a display setting only.
• Dates are stored and processed by Windows in a 4 digit format regardless of the short date format style selected in Regional settings.
• Customers can use the regional settings tab to adjust how the date is displayed (e.g. mm/dd/yy or mm/dd/yyyy)
• In order to avoid ambiguous dates, Microsoft recommends using 4 digits when entering date data and expanding the date field in regional setting to 4 digits. However this is not required to attain compliance.

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), November 04, 1999.

Off

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), November 04, 1999.

Thank you, Hoff, you beat me to it.

Urban-myths-R-us.

-- semper paratus (always@ready.now), November 04, 1999.

Explain the "#" then. Display window WIDTH is not a problem. If the window is wide enough to show 2 digit year dates but not 4 digit year dates, the date should still show, you just have to scroll in the window to see the whole date. (Click in the window, unhighlight it if required, then hit "End" and/or "Home".)

When I see a "#" in a window, that indicates to me an ERROR.

There's a reason Microsucks accepts 2 digit year dates. It's called cluelessness. And I have no confidence that they've suddenly got smart. Clever, yes. Smart, no.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 04, 1999.

I know this isn't a real big deal, but once again it shows that the Pollys were and are full of ****.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), November 04, 1999

I guess that those "****" must stand for "F-A-C-T" or maybe "truth". could be "big brains"? what about "logic"? "know-how" would be a good one also.

Thanks, yonny yohnson for the update....but most people already know that about the "pollys".

-- Yippy Skippy (do@dah.day), November 04, 1999.

"Explain the "#" then. Display window WIDTH is not a problem. If the window is wide enough to show 2 digit year dates but not 4 digit year dates, the date should still show, you just have to scroll in the window to see the whole date. (Click in the window, unhighlight it if required, then hit "End" and/or "Home".)

When I see a "#" in a window, that indicates to me an ERROR.

There's a reason Microsucks accepts 2 digit year dates. It's called cluelessness. And I have no confidence that they've suddenly got smart. Clever, yes. Smart, no.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 04, 1999. "

Do any of you EVER check the facts for yourself? The ###### problem shows up anytime the COLUMN is not wide enough for the data. As in let's say you have gone to Format - Columns - Auto Fit Selection. Let's say you had done this when you had a $ amount of $9,983.04 (random number I chose). You add more data and the number becomes $10,433.22, you will at this point get the ####### display. You simply go to Format - Columns - Auto Fit Selection and the ######## will change to $10,433.22 This is how Excel lets you know that your column is not wide enough. I run into this problem every few days as I run a lot of spread sheets. God forbid though that anyone goes to a copy of Excel and check this out!

And yes folks, this also happened when I changed the dates in Windows 98 from DD/MM/YY to DD/MM/YYYY, I got the ######## sign. I went in, Auto Fitted the selection and golly gee willikers there were the dates. It is a formating problem.

My god you people will grasp at any straw won't you? ANYONE WITH ACCESS TO A COPY OF EXCEL CAN CHECK THIS OUT FOR THEMSELVES!

-- b (b@b.b), November 05, 1999.

I use Access all the time. Excel not so often, so I've never run into a width error problem in Excel. I set my own column widths. I'll grant you that about Excel since I won't have access to it until next week to check it. What I said about Access stands, whether in datasheet or form view. So you're saying that Microsucks has gone off in different directions with the two products. Not surprising.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 05, 1999.

"So you're saying that Microsucks has gone off in different directions with the two products. Not surprising. "

No, you are putting words in my mouth, big suprise. I talked about Excel, and Excel only.

-- b (b@b.b), November 05, 1999.

Talk about not understanding the issue. Geez.

Y2K compliance has not one damn thing to do with how information is displayed on screens and printed on reports. Not one, Gary North and his bizarre postings be damned. It is based solely on the representation of dates in software and the manipulation of those dates in software. Access and Excel store all dates with 4-digit century representations, or at least the last couple of versions have. Furthermore, given good data the manipulations of that data are correct. With bad data? Well, garbage in, garbage out. How that data gets displayed on screens and reports is a formatting problem, not a Y2K problem. Anyone who is confused by thats needs to get sent back to Y2K 101 for some remedial instruction.

And A, try reading the original post before you decide that anyone you deem a "polly" is an idiot. Excel is the specific product mentioned in that post. Railings about Access when the subject at hand is Excel indicates that your sole motive is attack, not discourse.

Get a grip, huh?

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), November 05, 1999.