Alight....I tread where angels dare not.

What about Bible colleges?? Are you happy with the direction most are heading??

I want to recommend that you read one of the finest exposes of the modern day Bible College movement that I have ever read.

It was in the Summer 1999 issue of TNT Journal. The article is entitled, "Are Bible Colleges Paving the Superhighway of Liberalism?" by David Fagan.

What makes the article so great is that it cannot be disputed. It is documented by fully historical fact, most of which comes out of everyone's favorite Restoration History book "Christians Only" by James DeForest Murch.

Let me point out just a few things to get the ball rolling.

Ever heard these statements...."We must seek accreditation to order to provide a more quality education to our students....it will not affect our curriculum at all."

Listen to Fagan quoting Murch...."At first in the name of acadmic freedom, the liberals appealed for a place or two on the faculty in fairness to a new theological viewpoint that had attained wide acceptance. The liberal position was buttressed by action of the ACCREDITING AGENCIES, now in almost complete control of the liberals. These actions did not involve doctrine, but they created standards which eliminated much biblical and doctrinal instruction from the curriculum and disqualified the older scholars and professors from holding a place on the faculty."

I love this quote....Murch..."and when evangelicals raised them (i.e., their concerns) they were branded as "troublemakers" bent on destroying the peace of the brotherhood."

More Murch...."An entire volume could be written and documented showing the method of inflitration, the strategy of purging evangelical professors, and the change of educational policy.....there were always protests of innocence to the charges of disloyalty to the Word of God and the historic principles of the Restoration Movement."

David then goes on to point out some of the current Bible college practices that indicate....a falling from the faith.....

Participating in a Billy Graham Crusade "Faith only" female evangelist speaking in chapel "Faith only" dispensation speaker at a lecture series One student being the only minister who did not introduce himself as "the" pastor.

David then suggests a few things that can be done to bring about change. I recommend you get the article to see these.

He does point out one interesting thing. Don't expect to get answers unless you threaten the "cash flow" because money talks. Oh yes!!

This could be the reason that a number of Bible College Presidents are big on the "endowments." One of those Presidents foresees the day when the local church will not have to fund the college.

To me....that is dangerous. Who will the colleges answer to then??

The Bible college is not the "denominational headquarters".....they are not where the Pope resides....what they say does not go.

The church must reclaim the premise that the Bible college answers to the church....not the other way around.

To Mr. Fagan I would like to say...."Thank you" for a well written, well documented" article.

However, I would like to point out....any preacher, or individual, that takes him seriously and questions the practices of a Bible college and presses for answers and/or changes....puts themselves in danger of having their reputation besmeared. The status quo never gives up easily.

So be it!!

Many Bible colleges are doing a great job....and many (if not most) of those are NOT accredited. Accreditation has absolutely nothing to do with quality of education.

Quality of education is determined by adhearance to the Word of God.

Well.....what do you think??

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

Answers

Mr. Kelly....

I never thought it would happen....a subject that we have some basic agreement on. Maybe you are right....miracles still do happen. ha!

Couple comments:

Your point about accreditation pushing out in-depth Bible courses is in general....true. That's not conjecture....that is the facts from the inside.

Your point about the cost of education...is the norm. Most kids have loans pushed on them like a second helping of fried chicken. The result...a multitude of young people leaving the ministry after 5 years to get a better paying job in order to pay their loans.

Your point about churches supporting their Timothy's....I'm in full agreement. There is at least one individual who reads this forum who owes their Bible College education to the fact that while in Cocoa I pushed for the church to pay 100% tuition of their college boys....which they did. They graduated numerous preachers....debt free over the 7 year period.

Your point about accepting credits from non-accredited schools is....not quite accurate....anymore. It was in the past....but not now. Most progressive.....graduate schools accept students based upon their current performance....not necessarily their transcripts. More than one person has gained a reputable graduate degree from a university after starting out accepted as "a special student" who after doing well in a couple test courses....was granted full admission.

Murch....as a historian....had no bias to project. He simply reported the facts.

No one...not myself...or David Fagan gave the slightest hint that we "lump all accredited schools into the liberal camp." That is a straw man that distracts from the discussion.

His point...and mine....is to be aware....that it has happened in the past.

Many times....I think we so trust the Bible colleges that we fall into thinking "Oh....that could never happen."

History certainly tells otherwise.

Hope this clarifies.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

Mr. Kelley.....

Graduate school acceptance policies are very individualized...(as well as many undergrad schools).

For instance....did you know many undergrad schools now actively pursue home-schoolers who have no H/S Diploma at all. The reason?? They know the quality of education the homeschoolers have gotten, and therefore, they won't have to spend a lot of time in remedial education.

Same is true for Graduate schools. Individual acceptance policies allow for them to review each candidate on a performance basis, as opposed to a simple "Show me da paper" mentality.

Good talking with ya!

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

The Bible Colleges will be glad to know that due to the lack of response on this thread that everyone is thrilled with everything that is happening....there is no room for improvement....there are no concerns.....and each church will up their giving by $1,000 a month.

What happenend in the past...is the past...and will never happen again.

Praise God from whom all blessings flow!

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

Danny,

I can only go by my personal experience having been a student of two Southern Bible Colleges (with one I received my B.A. and I am working to finish my M.A.). The danger of acceditation is that what used to be in depth studies in Biblical books (verse by verse) has now become a survey course. This is due to acceditation boards demanding Math, Science, English, and various Humanities courses to be added to the core corses. Usually a College thus has to add more staff, more PhD.s, and more qualified teachers. Then when it is filtered down to the student- it means higher tuition. In my personal experience I did not have a wealthy parent to support me or a Church to Timothy me- so I depended upon work study, outside work, federal grants and loans. To date I still owe mega loans that need to be payed off- but it will take 25-35 years to pay them. Would anyone like to donate money to help pay off my loans? (Just kidding)

I am under the opinion that we would not need accreditation on the financial level if the churches all gave more to support their Timothys. But, due to the lack of support, Colleges and students are backed into a finacial corner- for to receive federal grants and loans you must be fully accredited.There is a good side though to accreditation. If one needs or desires to transfer credits in order to go on to a Seminary or continue with a PhD. then all credits will transfer thus you loose none.

Also we cannot lump all fuly accredited Colleges into a pile called Liberal. The College that I graduated from is a strong school in which I am proud to be an Alumni from (Johnson Bible College). Dr. Eubanks, Pres. has done an excellent job in maintaining the school's mission and direction to be a stronghold of true Bibilcal conservative scholarship.

I studied Murch's book in College, and I even have a copy. What I have found is at times his opinions are not totally fair in all cases. What might be true for some Colleges are not true for others. There are schools that have taken stands on hard issues and will not waver. I know this to be true- at least for the two schools that I have attended.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

We are in full agreement- although I did not know about Graduate schools taking students based on performance alone. Perhaps there is much we do have in common... ya think?

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

One day does not a thread make.... Take it from me... Many threads start out slowly, (maybe a week) and then explode.

Does anyone remember the article in the Restoration Herald where they interviewed Bible Colleges as to their stance on inerrancy and other doctrinal issues? I have the "chart" but I lost the article that went with it. I want to post both of them as soon as I find the article again. If anyone has it, let me know.

There are many threads in this forum, with many different purposes. Some are static: that is, they are just there for your benefit, and they will ALWAYS be there, so you know that you can always come here to find them quickly. (saves space on your hard drive!) An example would be the article "Doctrinal Trends in the Restoration Movement" or various Salvation charts or reprints. If you have something that you feel would be valuable to add to these "static" archives, let me know.

Others get much traffic... the argumentative threads... after a while there is so MUCH stuff there that it is impossible to read it from beginning to end, so unless you have been "following" it, a new visitor would deem it hopeless to begin. These usually spin off into new threads.....and that's good too. But the old ones will always stay in the archives...(for posterity of course). Soon they will be categorized more accurately, as the archives grow.

I am happy to say that the most "looked at" thread is the "Daily Devotion" which nobody replies to, but most of you are reading. This tells me that you readers still find the devotional life important.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

I for one am not happy with the direction most of the Restoration schools are taking. And before anyone says anything, I have both a Masters and Doctorate degree. So, I am not anti bible college. Let's face it, we have lost the vision. We have broken our compass and are aimlessly scurrying about trying to look like we know what we are doing and where we are going.

We are not into raising men to preach the pure word of God anymore. Our philosophy has changed. No, now we are excited about raising up councilors. Did you know that 15 out of every 8 Bible college students want to be councilors.

No, we are not interested in raising preachers anymore. Instead we would really like to build bigger gyms for our basketball teams. We have lost our focus. The intent of the church was (and always has been) to raise up preachers. When you "expand" out of the local assembly to raise up preachers you have just shirked your responsibility. You have given up the (biblical reigns (Local evangelists & elders) that is needed to pull back a run away system and given them to a board. Most of the time the board is made up of wealthy men who wouldnt know the gospel if it came down the road with a hat on. Many are more interested in keeping the machine running at full throttle than doing the will of God.

The bible college paradigm was never intended to be permanent. But now we (preachers) graduate from the colleges and then we "find" a church, beg for more money to send back to the bible college that is not doing its job to begin with. They build bigger building and most local congregations don't have the funds to evangelize in the way they should and the Bible colleges don't evangelize at all. Why? because we might loose denominational students.

Remember we are accredited now! Why on earth do we want a king?

Jim Spinnati

-- Anonymous, October 28, 1999

I for one am not happy with the direction most of the Restoration schools are taking. And before anyone says anything, I have both a Masters and Doctorate degree. So, I am not anti bible college. Let's face it, we have lost the vision. We have broken our compass and are aimlessly scurrying about trying to look like we know what we are doing and where we are going.

We are not into raising men to preach the pure word of God anymore. Our philosophy has changed. No, now we are excited about raising up councilors. Did you know that 15 out of every 8 Bible college students want to be councilors.

No, we are not interested in raising preachers anymore. Instead we would really like to build bigger gyms for our basketball teams. We have lost our focus. The intent of the church was (and always has been) to raise up preachers. When you "expand" out of the local assembly to raise up preachers you have just shirked your responsibility. You have given up the biblical reigns (Local evangelists & elders) that is needed to pull back a run away system and given them to a board. Most of the time the board is made up of wealthy men who wouldnt know the gospel if it came down the road with a hat on. Many are more interested in keeping the machine running at full throttle than doing the will of God.

The bible college paradigm was never intended to be permanent. But now we (preachers) graduate from the colleges and then we "find" a church, beg for more money to send back to the bible college that is not doing its job to begin with. They build bigger building and most local congregations don't have the funds to evangelize in the way they should and the Bible colleges don't evangelize at all. Why? because we might loose denominational students.

Remember we are accredited now! Why do we desire a king?

-- Anonymous, October 28, 1999

Danny...

I don't know what you're talking about. Lincoln doesn't have any problems! Just send everybody there.

-- Anonymous, October 28, 1999

What about returning to the 1st century model?

Jesus apprenticed 12, those 12 apprenticed some more, etc. Paul appears to have been mentored by Barnabas, and Paul mentored Timothy, Titus, and many more.

The best vocational minister I ever knew never got a degree from a Bible college. His son is training to be a minister now. How? His dad is teaching him -- the son himself is attending Texas-Dallas and learning by doing by leading a new college ministry there under his dad's supervision. The previous college minister (who quit because his personality let him get to consumed in ministry, to the neglect of his family) was trained the same way, by closely supervised doing.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 1999

Central Christian College of the Bible is a college that still focuses on training preachers. The fact of the matter is we need solid Bible based people in every part of society.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 1999