I've come across something proposed in the early days of this century that might help in developing a model for the future. It's called the "Threefold Social Order" (sounds old-fashioned, doesn't it?) that was proposed by Austrian philosopher, Rudolf Steiner, in the aftermath of WWI. Basically, he links the three ideals "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" with what he considers the appropriate aspects of society: "Fraternity" with the commercial, free enterprise sphere: "Equality" with the human rights/legal/political sphere: and "Liberty" with the social, educational, spiritual and cultural sphere. Has anyone else come across this? (Boy, it's hard to write in this little box!)

-- Amy Marsh (canaryclub@aol.com), October 03, 1999

Answers

Sure. That's the motto of France. It is quite socialistic. Liberty is self-explanatory, but it is in conflict with the other two. Nothing wrong with brotherhood (fraternity), unless it is imposed. Equality is flat-out wrong, unless you are speaking as our founding fathers did, in which they said that all are CREATED equal. The French system is to the point that everyone must have equal everything, or the ones who get (read that "earn") more are made to pay so as to bring them back down with all the rest of the peons who sit around and settle for medeocrity. The next step after "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" is "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." That is the communist motto.

You cannot get more proto-socialistic than that motto, and you cannot get more TRUE liberty than what one finds in our Constitution.

Liberty and justice for all under the rule of law (a republic): not the rule of the people (a democracy).

-- Toothperson (a@a.a), October 03, 1999.

Hi Toothperson (love the name!): I am afraid my question was ambiguous. Of course the French revolution motto is well-known. What I was really asking is if anyone had come across the Threefold Social Order idea--where he apparently says, yes, Liberty Equality Fraternity is all very good, but you have to have those ideals applied in the right places. Again, equality very much as our founding fathers saw it--in the sphere of legal and human rights (not in the economic or social/cultural realm--where it is obvious we are not all the same), Liberty (as in freedom of expression, worship, education) in the social/cultural sphere, and fraternity in the commercial realm, where some attention is paid to the common good as opposed to everyone out for him or herself (but he wasn't advocating socialism at all). I think it is more along the "Law of the Commons" and our current ecological stewardship vs corporations run amok type of predicament. Anyway, I thank you for your thoughts and am sorry my question was fuzzy!

-- Amy Marsh (canaryclub@aol.com), October 04, 1999.

Hi Amy-you sure brought up an interesting topic. I've been read a bit of Steiner,mostly what he wrote about agri- culture,but he comes across to me as an amazingly many sided fellow,that is interested in the whole scope of human human endeavor not just one or two specialties. His idea of the threefold social order is fascinating- precisely because he attempts to address the whole "social realm". I will quote from a book I'm reading--- "Threefold social order-a social concept based on the threefoldness of humanity. In the social realm human soc- iety is made up of the significance sphere(this includes arts,science,philosophy and religion),the political spher,in which people work toward agreement and cooperat- ion,and the economic sphere,which deals with the production n of our daily bread and other such valuable items of ex- change. These parallel the physical human being with the head,heart and guts and the spiritual with thought emotion n and will. Presently in western society,particularly in the US,certain elements within the economic sphere pre- dominate so that economic forces drive the arts,sciences and religion as well as the political processes. Until these spheres come into balance and we establish each domain as free from domination by the others,we will have social turmoil. This same principle of balance and stab- ility lies at the basis of individual and spiritual health." If y2k hits us bigtime we are especially vulnerable because so many are infatuated primarily with money making and don't have time,energy or will to cultivate the other sides of their beings. IMO it is these other sides that will pull us through a crisis. Well,be inter- ested in what you think-Howie

-- Howie (biggguy79@hotmail.com), October 04, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

I did read some of Steiner's work about ten years ago when I was comparing the Waldorf School idea (and how it works in practice) to homeschooling. As a byproduct of that reading, I learned a small amount about Steiner's agricultural ideas. He advocates biodynamic farming, which is basically the exact opposite of big business monoculture. In his vision, an extended family lives on their farm generation after generation, raising a few of each of a wide variety of complementary animals, and cultivating all the fruits, grains and vegetables needed to support themselves and all of their animals. No use is made of outside inputs such as petroleum based fertilizers.

Steiner's promotion of biodynamic farming was rooted not so much in any thought that the monoculture method was especially prone to failures, but more in that, even when working as designed, the monoculture method poisons the earth, wastes energy, punishes labor, squelches human creativity and creates local disharmony.

At least, that's my impression of his thinking, all these years later.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 05, 1999.

Hi Howie, Good quote! what book were you reading? I too think it's those other things (beyond money making) that will get us through our crises--even Y2K. Hi Dancr, Thanks for writing. Steiner's biodynamic stuff is certainly useful to our discussion of regrouping and recovering from Y2K as well. That's another topic of his I'd like to investigate more thoroughly--though I think you could spend your whole life reading his stuff--he was so prolific and multi-faceted. Waldorf education is what I am most familiar with. --Amy

-- Amy Marsh (canaryclub@aol.com), October 05, 1999.

Amy-the book I was quoting from is A Biodynamic Farm by Hugh Lovel( pub.Acres USA). An interesting read.He rambles s alot but there are some real nuggets. The only book of Steiner's I have read is Agriculture,an 8 or 9 lecture course he gave in the 1920's. I was warned in advance about how "obscure" and hard to follow it would be,but I found it to be one of the clearer and more succinct thing s I had read. I guess the time was right. And talk about being prophetic,it's hard to believe he was writing 70 odd years ago...talking about declining soil fertility, people not being able to get wholesome food,the crisis on the farm,ever increasing industrialization etc,etc. His idea that people need to have their three basic spheres in balance surely rings true.Now I'm really eager to read some of his other stuff. Can you recommend anythi ng? The Biodynamic Assoc website www.biodynamics.com- has an interesting bio of him as well as other farming- gardening links in case you're-Howie interested

-- Howie (biggguy79@hotmail.com), October 06, 1999.

Amy -

Steiner was revolutionary in his time simply because he proposed thinking about all the people, instead of the people at the top of the foodchain exclsively.

Applying many of his ideas to our society, post Y2K, could be beneficial. God willing, we will not go back to what our founding fathers put together. You must remember who those fathers were. They were the rich land owners (America's feudal lords) whose ideas of equality were essencially directed towards themselves as protection. If you think they really thought everyone was equal, why did they own slaves? And the majority of them did, BTW. The Native Americans certainly weren't equal. Until the Ponca trials in the late 1800's, NA's weren't even considered HUMAN under the law. Bet you didn't know that. I know it came as a shocker for me!

I quess what I'm saying is that no ONE schematic will work in our society. It's simply too diverse. The GOLDEN RULE would be the best, but I think we all know that few truly follow that one either. If we could use it, plus Steiner's farming suggestions (which are tremendously appropriate) a lot of common sense about true needs vs. wants, a bit of paranoia for protection, and a massive dose of tolerance for ourselves and others, we may get through this thing somewhat intact.

That's what I'd like to see, though I doubt seriously if that is the reality.

Regards, Claudette

-- Claudette Young (laclaud@cybertrails.com), October 06, 1999.

Hi Howie and Claudette: Howie, Steiner's autobiography is a good place to start. Gives you some orientation into his life. Helpful! Try Anthroposophic Press at www.anthropress.org. I am reading his book on Bees. You might find that interesting, and prophetic as well. Claudette, I agree. No one model or pattern will work, but I think we could all come up with many examples of small-scale community efforts and good ideas that will be useful in many situations. I didn't know that about Native Americans not even being considered human until the 1800s. That IS a shock! And, of course, there's always what happens to women... Thank you both for writing! Let's continue with our good ideas! ---Amy

-- Amy Marsh (canaryclub@aol.com), October 06, 1999.