[Sorry if this has been discussed previously - please direct me...]

if a "10" were the Y2K reality, what would one put away now to "barely" make it (survive) for the longest period of time without injuring ones health, even though ones heath may not get any better and possibly a lot of weight and muscle mass may be lost in the process?

Thus, for an adult human, how is the state of being "well-nourished" defined?

how is the state of being "mal-nourished" defined?

is there a grey area between which one might be a candidate for being either adequately or inadequately nourished ?

how is that grey area manifested?

if one were to attempt to carry on ones back only enough nourishment to last as long as one could last with only the nourishment on ones back :

1) how long (numbers of days) might one last? [I realize that depends on how much one can carry, etc...]

2) of what would that nourishment consist ?

3) how much, of what kinds of things, would that nourishment be?

if one intentionally planned to tread that fine line between being adequately nourished and being mal-nourished, what is the least amount of food or the least costly food that one could consume to do that?

[all of the above assumes that ones need for water is adequately met and that one would have any and all nutritional supplements (vitamins, minerals, etc.) needed (put away) to offset any dietary deficiencies of any critical nutrients.]

lets also assume for the discussion that anything and everything one needed was readily available - but only those things one had put away and only in enough quantities to allow one to survive

[I suppose there might be POW studies that would address this i.e.. "how little can we get away with NOT feeding them before they begin to get sick"...?

my point :

we all know about wheat, peas, beans, rice, lentils, etc.; but my quest is for the least costly, yet most nutritious means of "staying alive" regardless of how much weight, muscle mass or other changes to ones body may occur.

when one approaches the beginning of malnutrition, what goes first, second, etc..? the brain function? the liver, kidneys, etc.?

can one monitor ones own state of health on, say, a daily basis, so that one could volitionally tread that fine line between "adequate and inadequate" nutrition by monitoring ones own state of health?

how?

of all the nutrients, is there one that is more critical than all the others? or that may be in the shortest supply in time of crisis?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Maybe I can return the favor in other areas. i.e. - mechanics, hydraulics, pneumatics, solar trackers, etc....

Perry

-- Perry Arnett (pjarnett@pdqnet.net), September 18, 1999

Answers

Perry, a study of human history and much survival literature leads me to believe that people can live on almost any food or food combination for even long periods of time. It's not exactly what I'd personally choose, however. Current nutritional thinking suggests that we need protein, fat, and carbohydrates, in combination at every meal. I was using protein supplements for a while but now I think they are too hard on the kidneys. I do plan to get some of the Ironman bars, however, as an easy and cheap food backup source.

First of all, I would suggest you re-evaluate your plan--obviously you are thinking about something akin to wilderness trekking. Isn't there someplace you could go with a stash of food that would be somewhat secure? Or are you only thinking about an emergency bug-out process?

Some foods you might take would be something like a trail mix of fruits and nuts, maybe powdered eggs if you think you'll have the water to rehydrate them. Can you buy other foods now such as MREs or emergency food packs?

Why do you choose initially to think about MALnutrition, rather than maintaining nutrition?

What vitamins are you taking with you? I would suggest making up packages in advance in (waterproof) mylar bags. A good mix would include maybe half a multi, a 500 milligram C (in combination with bioflavinoids, etc.), a multimineral, a multi trace mineal, and something like bee pollin to give you trace amounts of B vitamins. Add to that any herbs you take for any conditions you currently have and carry along some anti-infectives such as tea tree oil, olive leaf extract, or oregano oil.

How about dried animal protein, too, like beef jerkey, or turkey jerky? Actually, that would be lightweight with lots of good protein. The free range turkey sticks are the best--or ostrich meat, which they sometimes have in GNC--a little pricey.

Good luck.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 18, 1999.

Perry,

Just breezed quickly through your post - I recommend you find a copy of Passport to Survival - it describes a really basic program (Morman's refer to this a lot). If I had to pack my food for as long as possible I think I would carry as many Power Bars as I could. My hubby does long distance triathlons and as a family we use them alot. They are balanced very well, complete proteins, etc. for keeping a body going through stressful times. Of course you must pack or obtain lots of water along the way and would utilize other foods as available but I would suspect you would do ok on Power Bars and water for a very long time. You would want to forage for vegetables (PBs don't supply any vitamin A).

Also pack a big supply of multi vitamins (not "overdosing" type) and minerals plus salt.

I am no expert, just quickly jotting down my thoughts. Hope you find it helpful.

-- Kristi (securxsys@cs.com), September 18, 1999.

Go read http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/MORMAN4.TXT and then note what is mentioned about the Morman 4 being inadequate. Then read read Cresson Kearney's Nuclear War Survival Skills and note the difference between his stoarge food list and the Morman 4. Finally re-read what I said about Cornell bread and ideal amino acid balance.

You can take that info and come up with a powder of ground wheat, wheat germ, salt, soy flour, and dried milk that can be baked into anything you like or just add hot water for a very nutritious mush. Add sugar to taste. Of course use ground wheat, not white flour!!! White flour misses the bran and lots of vitamins, particularily E. If you are concerned about vitamin E, there are several little plastic grain mills that are small and lightwieght so you can grind your wheat as you go.

This comes pretty close to the NATO ration bar, the MR8.

To avoid constipation, learn about proper preparing of things like dock, plantain, lamb-quarters, and other "weeds" for a source of additional fiber. Or if you want to stick to the backpack, adding some oatmeal and raisins (cook the raisins in the oatmeal) would be another idea for proper bowel health as oatmeal contains both soluable and insoluable fiber.

For supplimentation I would recommend Life Service Supplements's Personal Radical Shield, but instead of consuming 12/day, just take one per day.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), September 19, 1999.

Got to mention that I worry about allergies with foods based in soy and wheat, with no change of diet. These are common allergins. So are other staples like peanuts. I think rotating foods is good. In other words, you can have a lot of several types of foods, but be sure to rotate so the allergins don't build up--this is for people staying at home with preps.

Very true about fiber. Psyllium is a good addition to the diet. Buy a few containers now. For the same reason, you need some kind of oil in your diet--and enough water!

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 19, 1999.