Each year I hear more and more about congregations going to Saturday evening services ... some in place of Sunday evening, and some along with. All that I have heard of also have Sunday morning services.

What are your thoughts on this trend? Is it a trend? Is it something you think will pass with time? What are some of the reasons, both biblical and practical, to support Saturday evening services? What are some reasons, both biblical and practicla, to not support Saturday evening services? Where do you stand on this issue?

-- Anonymous, September 17, 1999

Answers

Darrell....

I've never understood the logic.

If you can't get them there on Sunday evening....then by what logic are we then supposing that they will come on Saturday evening??

-- Anonymous, September 18, 1999

Darrell....

The logic still breaks down.

You said..."They have a seeker service and invite people to church on a Saturday night."

My question: "Why can't they invite them on a Sunday night??"

You said...."They relieve overcrowding by having a Saturday night service."

My question: "Why can't they releive overcrowding by having people come on Sunday night?"

Which brings us back to...."If they can't get them there on Sunday....what makes us think they will come on Saturday??"

To me.....it's just another one of the wonderful fads we seem to so enjoy in the Christian church. (Hey....the Baptist and Charismatics do it....let's do it too!)

I mean....why not Thursday.....or Friday worship??

I mean.....when I was growing up and a young married....Saturday night was the happening night.

I'm all for good, positive changes.....but this whole thing reaks of "fad."

That's my .00002 cents worth!

Your friend!

-- Anonymous, September 19, 1999

The Christian Church has always maintained the hermeneutic that church practices are determined by two things.....1) Direct command; and/or 2) Apostolic precedent.

Meeting on the "Lord's Day" is certainly in the realm of apostolic precedent.

In fact, so is the practice of having communion every Lord's Day.

Where is the "direct command" to have the Lord's Supper every Sunday?? It's not there. We do so, because we believe the apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and that which they practiced, we should feel a necessity to do so as well.

Meeting on the "Lord's Day" comes under this same genre of determining church practice.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 1999

Jack....

We're not on Jewish time.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 1999

D. Lee.....

Absolutely!!! They met on the first day of the week.....so do we. They had the Lord's Supper each first day of the week....so do we.

They wore gowns....I don't (I know you may...LOL). They eat matzah balls.....I don't.

Please....let's not get into watching the stars and determining at what point at sunset is it the next day.....etc.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 1999

D. Lee....

I've never understood or accepted the idea, because I have not found Scriptural evidence, for the belief that the Lord's Supper ought to be taken "only on the Lord's Day."

Take it everyday if you want....but Sunday always has been the day of corporate worship for the church.

In the same way.....have a worship service, or a seeker service, a service for "Biker Babes" every other day of the week if you want.

But Sunday is still the only day known in Scripture as the Lord's Day and the day the church has specifically been called to corporate worship.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Duane.....

My question is....."what does one have to do to get a thread started??"

In my opinion, that is one shortcoming of this forum. We should be able to start threads on our own like on most other "talk" forums.

Either that.....or you're into the "censorship" thing.....because I can't get you to post the topic I sent to you today.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Jon,

I must say that I disagree strongly with your statement that "the idea of the hallowed day of Sunday was borrowed from the Roman Catholic church."

The Seventh Adventist cult would be happy to hear you say that.

The historical fact is this......when Constantine became Emperor of the Roman Empire he declared Sunday the offical Roman day of worship. That is true. But here is the overlooked historical fact.....he did it BASED UPON WHAT THE CHURCH WAS ALREADY DOING. (cap for emphasis)

He didn't change a thing. Since due to him Christianity became the "ex facto" religion of the Roman Empire, he made an official declaration of Sunday as the day of worship to sanction what the church was already doing.

Nothing was borrowed from the Roman church. In fact, it's the other way around.

Going back to what I said earlier.....you can have a service everyday of the week if you want. But the N.T. precedent is unquestionably, "the first day of the week."

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000

Jon,

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you that a lot of "Sunday as the Sabbath" traditions did come from Protestanism.

Also, your comment about not everyone having Sunday free from employment is why I still believe in evening worship.

Anyway, our difference on this would be less than the difference between "twiddly-dee" and "twiddly-dum".

Thanks again for the clarification.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000

"Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news, that Jesus is the Christ." Acts 5:42.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 1999

I do not have a problem with the church deciding to have a worship service or any other type of service on Saturday evening. It would fall under the same principle that the church uses to have Wednesday evening services. But I have heard of one congregation not having any Sunday services and replacing them with a Saturday night service. This I believe goes against the example set by Scripture.

Paul in Acts 20:7 meet the first day of the week to break bread. In I Corinthians 16:2 Paul told the church of Corinth to set aside the money for the offering Paul was collecting on the first day of the week. We also see that in Revelation a day of the week was being considerer the Lord's day. History shows us that the early church met during the first day of the week to break bread, prayer, and the preaching/teaching of the word of God. I believe there must be a time in common with all Christians to meet and historically this has been the first day of the week.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 1999

Danny -- Many congregations, both within and without our brotherhood, have elected to have Saturday evening services for a number of reasons, though having them in place of Sunday night isn't one I've heard.

Some use Saturday evening to bring in seekers. Church members ask friends, co-workers, etc. to go to an evening service on Saturday, and then spend time together at dinner, movies, etc. "Just another way to win the lost" you will hear.

Others use Saturday evening to allieve overcrowding on Sunday mornings. A couple of congregations I know of already have three services on Sunday, and have added Saturday night (One has two on Saturday evening, and three on Sunday morning).

-- Anonymous, September 19, 1999

I agree with what you are saying, but I think the people the Saturday evening service are trying to bring in are not the ones who would come in on Sunday evenings. As you know, even within our memberships, Sunday evenings are not a popular time for getting together. Many congregations have tried a multitude of ideas to get people out on Sunday evenings, usually to no avail. I know there are some who are successful, but most aren't.

As for Saturday night being the happening night, from what I have read, that is one reason some congregations are going that route. The idea is to make plans with another couple (non Christian) or family to do something following the service, bring them to the service, then fellowship together. Does it work? That I don't know, as I haven't been involved with Saturday worship, except to visit a couple of congregations who have gone that route.

And I'm sure that in many congregations there are those who choose to worship on Saturday evening, and sleep in or ??? on Sunday morning. The people I have talked with who choose this route many times have one or both parents who work on Saturday, which means one or both are working six days each week, with Sunday the only day off. By having the chance to worship early Saturday evening, it affords them some family time on Sunday. There might be some validity in this, since it seems hard to have good quality time as a family any more (that's another subject for another b/b thread). Of course, if Sunday is spent with Father in front of the tube watching football, the children outside, mom catching up on housework, then the purpose has been defeated.

Is it just a fad? Might be. Of course, the RC's have been having mass on Saturday evenings for many years now, and as I recall it was one of the busiest times at their building down the street from our house when I grew up.

Maybe it's just a pragmatic thing. Doesn't mean it's right ... maybe not wrong. I know that if I can get someone involved in quality worship time with the Lord, and it can only be on Saturday night, then better that than not at all.

One reason I bring all this up is that we are in the planning stages for the new congregation here in Indiana. It will have a major focus on the college students ... especially the students who are not presently attending anywhere. It has been mentioned by a number of folks that an early Saturday evening service might bring in more of the lost here on campus than a Sunday morning service. Just a thought.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 1999

From a post above: "Paul in Acts 20:7 meet the first day of the week to break bread. In I Corinthians 16:2 Paul told the church of Corinth to set aside the money for the offering ..." -- A question: Iknow that we (and many others as well) have used these two passages to explain first day of the week meetings. I read an interesting paper (from a acappella church of Christ brother) that asked us to be "intellectually honest." His points were that (a) neither of these passages command Sunday gatherings, and (b) neither passage states or even implies strongly that it was a habit to gather together regularly on Sunday/first day of the week.

I think (hope I don't speak out of turn for him) he was making the point that Paul did meet with the church at Troas on a Sunday, and that it might have been their habit to do so, or it might have been a special meeting ... the Bible doesn't say one way or the other. And with regards to the offerings, he stated that the first day of the week might have been "payday." Again, it doesn't say they gathered for worship on Sunday ... just implied.

Personally, those two passages and the info we glean from historical writings from the early first and second century are enough for me to continue meeting on the first day of the week. I will always do so. I bring it up for discussion because I don't want anyone to accuse me of making a "thus saith the Lord" or apostolic standard out of something that might not be there. What do ya'll think?

-- Anonymous, September 20, 1999

"The Christian Church has always maintained the hermeneutic that church practices are determined by two things.....1) Direct command; and/or 2) Apostolic precedent. "Meeting on the "Lord's Day" is certainly in the realm of apostolic prescedent. "In fact, so is the practice of having communion every Lord's Day."

I certainly agree that the Christian Church has maintained these items for years and years ... my question though stems from the passages we use to explain our beliefs. I like the idea of being intellectually honest with our hermeneutic, as I know you do Danny. That is why I have a hard time making those two passages say more than they seem to say. Was it the habit of the early church to meet on the Lord's Day, or was it the habit of the church at Troas to meet on the Lord's Day, or was the meeting Paul spoke at a special meeting, possibly held because he was in town? Of course, I lean towards the first, that it was the habit of the churches to meet on the Lord's Day, but I don't see the passage in Acts 20 saying that. I just want to be honest with my studies. As I said before, there is also a lot of support in a number of extra-biblical writings for the concept of Lord's Day worship, and that is important as well, though it obviously doesn't carry the weight of Scripture. I will continue to meet on the Lord's Day, and through the CSF Celebration meet with brothers and sisters in Christ whenever it is possible to do so. Thanks again for your input Danny ... and the rest! It is appreciated.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 1999

Hey guys,

Didn't the 1st century christians meet day by day? Isn't worship supposed to be 24-7? Yes, I believe as you do that our community worship is to be done on the Lord's day along with the Lord's Supper. But aren't you talking about reaching the lost there on your campus Darrell? The command is to "GO" to the lost. If they will meet on Saturday nights, then "Go" preach, teach, study, fellowship.

-- Anonymous, September 22, 1999

There is no doubt that the early church met whenever they had the chance. We do that with Tuesday Celebration, and various activities that might include worship activities on Friday nights at the campus.

The question would be raised, then, about participating in the Lord's Supper during a Saturday evening service ... or at any other time than Sunday. I don't doubt the early church did just that, at least prior to establishing the first day of the week as the general day of worship. But what about very early in the history of the church, when they were meeting daily?

Would silence of Scripture apply here? Unless the one passage in Acts 20 would allow only Sunday communion, then the silence we find in the Bible on the subject would allow each congregation to make this decision for themselves.

Just some thinking "outloud."

-- Anonymous, September 23, 1999

The real problem is that the Restoration Movement has no Apostiolic precedent for its hermenuetic approach, yet we hold to it with all fervency. I think at issue inherently in this question is the absolute lack of understanding as to what worship really is and whether or not it is entailed in a "service" or not.

-- Anonymous, September 24, 1999

The whole issue of Saturday evening services is one that may need to be considered on a church by church basis. Perhaps you are in an area where there is a high population of Roman Catholic Traditionalists. They may not routinely attend Mass, but they claim to be Catholic and grew up in a tradition of going to Mass on Saturday. This could be an ideal opportunity to reach some who grew up in that tradition.

Regarding the Sunday Evening vs. Saturday Evening issue. For many people Sunday evening is a time to get ready for the rest of the week. It is a time to help Bobby with his homework and help Susie pick out her clothes. It's a time for mom and dad to pay the bills and finish the house cleaning before the week gets underway again. Not from a biblical perspective, but from a practical perspective we are seeing that people are not interested in giving up there Sunday evenings.

I think one key to this entire debate is what is the purpose of your service. If you service is primarily targeting those who are mature in faith, then perhaps sticking with a early Sunday morning service and a late Sunday evening service is appropriate. However, if you are targeting those who may not be as mature in their faith, may be a Saturday evening worship service would be appropriate because they realize that they do not have to get up early on a weekend morning to get the kids ready.

By no stretch of the imagination am I suggesting that Saturday evening services are the answer to all evangelism and the church issues, I'm simply saying that perhaps this is a dynamic tool to reach another segment of the population that you may not be able to reach as easily on Sunday a.m.

-- Anonymous, September 28, 1999

Good thought subject: Near as I can find, didnt Paul once preach till midnight? I doubt he started early.say 9:00 in the morning. Somewhere in all this I think that we forget that they went by Jewish time, so that the First day of the week actually began at 6:00 pm Saturday, That begins the first day of the week, not after the cock crows.Is it possible that the early church actually did meet on Saturday night and we just got caught up in tradition thinking in time according to our time calculations? Similar thoughts come into play regarding the Resurrection of Christ on the first fday of the week. Sorry, another subject.

-- Anonymous, September 28, 1999

Danny,

You are correct, we are not on Jewish time, but isn't the example we are to follow that of the Apostles and 1st century Church?

-- Anonymous, September 29, 1999

Danny,

All I'm saying is that if the first century church partook on the first day of the week and the first day of the week started at 6 p.m. on Saturday, how can it be wrong?

I have also heard it said that "Jesus did not implement the supper on the 1st day of the week...so how can it be wrong to partake on another day of the week?"

Your thoughts???

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

THIS IS A GREAT THREAD! Very thought provoking. I don't have much to add... but I had to say something... Thanks Darrell, for starting this one. You get the coveted "Thread of the Week" Award.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Answer: When you come into the forum, you see a list of the topics. At the top left, you see "Ask A Question". Click on it. Others have, and are in the ranks of those brave souls known as "thread starters". If it were a snake, it would have bitten ya! :)

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Paul, to the Romans:

Romans 14: 1 -5:

'Him that is weak in the Faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

For one believes that he may eat all things; another, who is weak, eats herbs.

Let not him who eats despise him who eats not; and let not him who eats not despise him who eats; for God has received him.

Who are you who judges another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up; for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.

13: Let us not therefore judge one another anymore; but judge this rather: that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000

I am wondering why it seems that some in our movement believe we only can have church on Sunday Morning. It would seem that having church in the evening is a gray area. Jews and other Middle-eastern cultures consider the day to start on the previous sundown. We westerners consider it to start at midnight. What time is God on? Will He not honor our worship if Him if we do it in the wrong time slot? Is God really this petty? Or are we just being legalists, tithing our mint and cumin?

When I was growing up, our church always had Sunday evening worship. And I see no problems with Saturday evening worship either. It might actually be easier to get people there on a Saturday evening than a Sunday evening, since they are not preparing for work the next day.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000

I have to smile as I read this one. We seem to keep going around and around to the same concepts. "Sunday services" is a preference, not a command. The idea of "the hallowed day of Sunday" is borrowed from the Roman Catholic church. (Don't lose me here...there is a point.) While there is a scriptural precendent for it, as Danny says, the "modern" way we "worship" is not the same. We do what we do because it is cultural, and has been basically the European tradition passed down through the ages. When the "Reformers" left the Catholic church, they retained this tradition. This tradition has also been imported to America, where it still exists today.

Connie quoted this one (scripturally) correct. One man says Sunday, another man says anyday. It merely is a preference of continental American churches. It really has become a legalistic point in my mind. Mark 2:27 I think is the operating principle here. Our 11 am / 7 pm tradition is centuries old. Its a sacred cow because "its the way we've always done it." When I lived in Hawaii, the most successful churches were the ones who abandoned the Sunday morning/evening ritual for something more flexible. Why? Because they met the needs of the people (which I really what I think Jesus wants us to do). The end result was that instead of being anchored to only Sundays and Wednesdays, they worshipped on multiple days of the week. Since being a Christian is a lifestyle, it was most beneficial to all involved. The change from "Sundays only" was easy there, because there are not the mainland cultural biases.

I think the argument that if they won't go on Sunday, why expect them to go on Saturday is only half valid. Darrell, my two cents is try it and see if it works.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000

Danny -

We actually agree on this point.

The early church did meet on the first day of the week as was the custom. And Constantine institutionalized it. We are in agreement. My point was that "in America" the practice was based on the Reformation, not New Testament. The Pilgrims, et al, came here with their European traditions which they kept. Denominational churches continue to do it "because we always did it that way." No thought as to why (unlike yourself), but just do what has been done for 300 years.

The real point of my insertion was that flexibility is necessary, because of the corruption of American society. Sunday is a meaningless day to most Americans. I think (and hopefully not wishful thinking) that once a person is won to Christ, and understands the truth of the Gospel, then Sunday worship will become their norm. But they have to get to that point first. Also, again due to the nature of our society, its not always reasonable or possible to have Sunday free from employment. Here is where we as leadership need to be sensitive and flexible so worship is possible, period. It is the act of worship that ends up being the most important, not the day/time/place.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2000