Hi Folks,

Here is something that deserves consideration as part of the post-Y2k cleanup - Garbage removal (sorry about the pun!)

Obviously if there is disruption to local utilities then garbage collection and sanitation will suffer also. Clearly this is an important problem as vermin and disease tend to run rampant in mounds in trash - just take a look at a few of our less-developed 3rd world metropolises.

A case in point: Most of you in this forum are taking steps, big or small, to prepare for Y2k. This includes stockpiling, among other things, canned and jarred foodstuffs which in the event of disruptions can be consumed in lieu of the extinct Big Macs. If these disruptions stretch out long enough, then all those cans who give their tinny little lives to banish our hunger pains could well turn out to be our bane as they pile up.

Dear readers, I would like to hear of any ideas, cute and innovative, you may have of getting rid of garbage when the weekly truck stops coming around. I'm especially interested to hear from you rural folks, fountains of survival wisdom as you have proved yourselves to be, who probably don't even have access to those comforts us city slickers take for granted.

To start the most obvious solution is to transport rubbish to the local tip yourself. However unless you live in walking distance this involves having access to a working vehicle and fuel, both of which may be lacking. Next you could dig your own personal landfill; probably not a good idea either, as you would need to find a way to compress it, and you would eventually outgrow it anyway.

Enter recycling! Tin cans, marvellous inventions, can be resurrected as general little "holders" - of nails, candles, soil, seeds, anything. Don't forget to file down the sharp bits (you DO have a file on hand, don't you!). Jars are just as wonderful, if they can't be reused to hold foodstuffs, with the added bonus of coming with a lid (although they can break). Plastic bottles can be reused similarly, but for ex-drink bottles it may be more practical to cut them in half.

Now I'm not going to stress the tired point of how in our society we throw away criminal amounts of trash, yadda yadda yadda. What I am saying is if, post-Y2k, no one is going to come around and get rid of our rubbish for us, then it will be up to each of us to: a) Manage what we consume more thoughtfully, b) Reuse what we must throw out, and c) Dispose of what we cannot reuse.

The sight and stench of great heaps of rotting garbage in the street may be the impetus for our disposable society to look at how it throws things away.

Thanks for listening,

-- Jason Quarry (onca@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999

Answers

Though I have wondered about this subject from time to time, I hadn't really come up with anything. I think the problem may be more pressing to us in the suburbs and cities than the country, however. One thing that seems to be needed for personally recycling all those jars and cans is water and cleaning agents; you'll need water and some cleaning agent to clean those cans.

Otherwise, you are going to accumulate a pile of jars and cans that may become a source of problems quite quickly for you and your neighbors. While you can build with cans (among other uses), glass and plastic jars may be cheap barter items for those that hadn't prepared. In terms of building with cans, what materials will you need to get the structure to hold together? I look forward to your suggestions.

One thing is for sure, I want to do a good spring cleaning in December and make sure that all the trash is out of the house and off the property before trash collection is interupted for any length of time.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 09, 1999.

All uneaten food goes to the animals, veg. to chickens and pigs, meat to dogs, paper and plastic into the wood stove for heat, very few cans will be used, and all glass jars are saved for canning next year. What trash that can not be fed, burned, reused, should be washed, crushed or broken, and stored until disposal can be made.

As a kid, we had no public trash service and all trash was burned and then the metal was dumped in the woods, after 40 years it all has rusted away, and glass was buried in the out house pit. Most glass was saved and reused. We always had a slop bucket in the kitchen and gave that to the hogs and chickens every day.

-- chicken farmer (chicken-farmer@ y2k.farm), September 09, 1999.

Couldn't burning plastic in your wood burner cause toxic fumes? I know that we were told never to burn any plastic, treated wood or even colored newspaper (the glossy ads).

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 09, 1999.

Kimberly,

Burning rubber and magnetic tape causes toxic fumes. Burning plastic or glossy magazines just causes extra smoke (mostly black). If you don't want to burn these items in your wood stove you can burn them outside in a burn barrel.

DJ

-- DJ (reality@check.com), September 09, 1999.

Just a few things that quickly come to mind. Bartering outgrown clothes, or even if you would just like something different for a lift now and then.

Compost all biodegradable substances. cans can be strung for warning of intruders as well as in the garden to scare critters away. Mostly I keep in mind: one mans trash is anothers need. Check around for any and all uses your community may have.

Just keepin' on, keepin' on

-- Sammie Davis (sammie0nospam@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

Either the "glitch" will be short duration - in which case you only need to manage waste in a way that won't make you or others sick until normal pick-up returns....

or it will be long term.. in which case we will soon not be dealing with the huge mountain of packaging that contributes to our waste disposal problem. When you grow your own food and raise your own meat it doesn't usually come on styrofoam trays wrapped in plastic.

From permaculture.. waste is a resource that hasn't been developed.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 10, 1999.

One craft I have recently learned is solar-oven making.Left-over food cans and soda cans make excellent containers to pasteurize water in.Looking at my supplies and what would be left over from them I see cardboard,plastic and metal cans,good material for solar-oven making.

-- Stanley Lucas (StanleyLucas@WebTv.net), September 10, 1999.

The good news is that if the economy goes south, so will the amount of trash you tend to accumulate.

Compost whatever you can. Apartment dwellers could use worm boxes, the rest of us could set up compost piles. Do not put meats or grease into the compost.

I do not expect that containers which are *relatively* (as opposed to completely) clean and then allowed to dry out will attract problems.

I found a couple beat up galvanized trash cans at the transfer station that I will use as burn buckets. I will not be burning anything more in my wood stove than is necessary to keep it going. Burning paper creates unnecessary amounts of ash. Burning plastics and styrofoam produces toxic gases, and I would think would also create a toxic ash (which I would like to put on my vegetable garden).

Most of my trash will consist of kitty litter and tin cans, which I will crush. One more reason you can't have too many trash bags. The rest can be burned or thrown in the compost.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), September 10, 1999.

In Earth Abides, George Stewart postulated a world after a plague, and mentioned waves of infestation by various critters coping with the new situation. Waves of rats feeding on corpses, etc. Interesting reading.

You might take care of your garbage, but your neighbors might not. Or some locations may have many of human casualties with no one to dispose of the remains. Or abandoned farms might have large numbers of cattle that starve in pens, some sloppily butchered and bits left scattered around.

We'll probably see major sanitation problems, if Y2k is anything over a 3. That means rats, mice, probably packs of pet dogs left to run wild. Stock up on poison for the rodents, and prepare for packs of dogs. Feral dogs are smart and fearless and run much faster than you can. Ever notice how often children are bitten by dogs? To a dog, a child is easy prey.

If these risks turn out to be reality, you might not have much warning. When food is exhausted in one area, rats may move out in huge numbers, very quickly. Dog packs tend to be very mobile even when they do have food. You might have no problem one day and be swamped the next.

Stay alert.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 10, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

I've just started a thread on managing trash on the Preparation Forum, for the discussion of individual preparations.

I do also see the topic of trash management as being appropriate for this forum on rebuilding. Besides helping our neighbors to build kitchen composters, and garden composters, larger neighborhood compost piles could be built if a location could be found for one, and if can be properly "policed" to prevent people from depositing inappropriate items there. Plans could also be shared with nearby neighborhoods.

If fuel for transportation can be expected to be in limited supply for years, if not decades or longer, then the current method of using one large dump to serve a huge metropolitan area is clearly unworkable. Smaller dumps will be distributed throughout the population. How will it be decided where these spots will be?

There is a problem in that all of the land is now spoken for by somebody. Nobody will want the tri-neighborhood dump to end up on or too close to their own property. Neighborhoods would also want to have some policing of the dump to prevent people from discarding things that could be recycled, and to prevent it from being used by a larger neighborhood than intended.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), September 10, 1999.