Maybe it's just me. Maybe you really like a Speedo. I don't know. Different strokes, right? (You all love my puns, you know you do)...

Tell me what you like in a swimsuit. I mean, literally in a swimsuit.

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

Answers

While I was a good little student of Tae-Bo, a faithful Billy Beeatch, I looked good in a swimsuit. We're talking day-yum.

Not so much now. But that's okay, because it's time to start putting on that winter weight, especially now that I'm not in the balmy South any more.

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I've seen this paunch before - Deja Speedoo

oops! wrong forum!

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I've YET to see a man that can wear a speedo and turn me on.

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I love a nice maillot - sleek, classic, slightly revealing, but not trashily so. I was so relieved when the monokini was finally over. What a horrendous trend. And I'm very much looking forward to being an old granny type in outrageous floral bathing costumes and big bathing caps in coordinating colors. I like to plan ahead like that. Oh, and as for men's swimwear, I don't really care, as long as it's not a Speedo-type thing. Nothing makes men look like eight year-olds more than those and tighty-whitey type underwear. Yuck.

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I personally think Speedo's are repulsive, but that's just me.

There's something about any guy in a pair of Speedo's that ...just....isn't...right.

There's no mystery. No flair. No firecrackers. No drama. Nada.

It certainly leaves nothing to the imagination.

What you (literally) see is what you get.

On the other hand - my vote goes to a longer pair of surfer shorts, preferably a durable, semi-thick cloth fabric (as opposed to flimsy men's swim trunk material sold at various pseudo-stores), worn on a nicely toned gentleman, with the shorts resting just below those cute little dimply muscle-line thingies below the hips.

That right there is a tease, no? You could keep yourself entertained all afternoon, sweetie.

.....

I'm sorry, what was the question again?

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I don't find speedos attractive. That goes for both genders.

I don't really care much what swimsuits look like as long as the person's comfortable with what he/she's wearing. I've seen some people who look like they'd rather be hiding under a ton of sand than show what they're wearing. Something wrong with that picture, no?

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

I'll take those hip-muscle thingies. Mmmm. :>

But Speedos?! I'm sorry, I don't even think the Olympic Dive Team looks good in those things. >:P

Gut reaction to "Pseudo Ricky Martin": Ewwwwwwwwww!

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

Tee hee, they're called "sluggos" in Australia. Giggle, snicker.

Our lifesavers wear them. Now that's nice :-)

I feel like a dirty old woman. eeek!

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

Yeah... sluggos or even more commonly "DP's" (use your not-so-subtle imagination on that one).

Whenever I think of Speedos, I get reminded of my dad. He belongs to that old generation that grew up in the 60's and early 70's... back when it was the norm to wear your DP's and have em hanging low around your hips. Tragically that fad never passed on for many of that generation and you can still see them on the beaches today... of course they've accesserised it now with a well built beer-gut and A LOT more butt-crack.

Well at least they're happy I guess.

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999

Although Billy has made me a conqueror and says that I don't have to worry about that swimsuit anymore, I will never be confident enough to wear a Speedo. Good thing, I guess. My girlfriend likes those new vintage looking bathing suits for guys that aren't much more than a Speedo- just really tight, really short shorts. I'm sorry, but I hate the little mesh things inside guys' bathing suits, and I'm not going to wear a bathing suit that is basically just that. So guys, if your boys also hate the mesh, go for Birdwells (surfer type shorts). They may be a little more expensive than most, but there's no safety net and they last forever.

As for women's bathing suits, I think the thong is about the same as a guy in a Speedo- TMI. It also says something about the girl wearing it, generally, "I know everyone is looking at my ass and I don't care." While some may find this an attractive attitude, I like someone with a little more modesty. Of course, I am genetically predispositioned to look, nevertheless.

Oh, and thanks for the tips on the hip dimple thing (my girlfriend has told me the name of that muscle, but I've blocked it out). While it will make me a little more self-conscious now, it does give me a goal and motivation to keep up the Bo. You got to have focus!

-- Anonymous, September 09, 1999

Speedos..ugh. My friend Dave was a lifeguard during uni and had to wear one, much against his will, although in Vancouver we called them Banana Hammocks.

Personally, I like the baggy tartan swimming trunks that LLBean and the like sell...very sexy.

-- Anonymous, September 09, 1999

Back in the spring when people were complaining in Pamie's forum about the trials and tribulations of swimsuit shopping, I suggested that nudity was a simple option. During most of the seventies and the early eighties I did most of my swimming at a clothing optional lake and always chose the no clothes option. I've not been to a nude beach in fifteen years but if I were to visit one today I would not hesitate to go bare... but I could never ever imagine wearing a Speedo suit! When my oldest kid was on his high school swim team they all wore Speedo type suits. That's okay for high school or college swim teams and for Olympic swimmers. They look pretty stupid on anyone else.

And as for women's suits... Thongs also look dumb... It is not a very flattering look... it's like the extra super high cut legs that were popular a few years ago... looks like someone gave them a wedgie! Speaking as an observer, I remember nude beaches fondly, but I think the sexiest most attractive suit is the good old teeny tiny low cut bikini if worn by someone who is slim trim & althletic... Otherwise, totally bare is better. I have seen several women I knew wearing swimsuits at a public lake and in the nude at the clothing optional lake and they all looked better nude. No, I'm serious... Swimsuits can magnify flaws, they may be too tight here, too loose there, etc. Oh, never mind, I'm gonna just shut up before I get into trouble.

I wear running shorts to the beach.

-- Anonymous, September 09, 1999

I dunno Jim. I'd say most people look better when wearing the right clothes than they do just naked. But I'd have to say that as far as swim suits go, I like trunks on guys, or if it's got to be tight, then those lycra kinda-like-biking-shorts-but-not-quite things. And on girls a bikini top with shorts.

I remember going tubing last summer with a few of my friends, my girlfriend Molly, and her friend Rina. Rina was wearing running short lookin swim trunks with a terry cloth bikini. Afterward, Molly said to me, "Ya know, I feel kinda bad about this, but while we were tubing, I was staring at Rina's boob's, and I really wanted to make out with her." It was a really great swimsuit though, so I can't blame her.

-- Anonymous, September 09, 1999

ok, I've had some very strange speedo experiences in my life.

A. Europeans and South Americans love speedos. this is a fact. Proven to me time and time again here in the south bay of LA. But my first experience of euro-speedo was my brothers soccer coach who was swedish, i think. or yugoslovian. Very boisterous, blonde pot bellied guy about 40- 45 years old. when i say pot bellied i ain't talkin raisin in the sun, i'm talkin full on baby jupiter hidin'in there some where. And at the soccer pool parties he'd where this tiny little speedo, walkin sway back like he was about to give birth to a keg. He was such a nice guy,though, it was kind of endearing. Next strange experience couldn't have been more different. Dwight was a 6'4", 125 lb. wanna be aging hippie with a 10" schlong. The only reason i know the exact length is because he would wear ( at theater pool parties-pool parties are popular in Ft. Worth) a tiny GOLD speedo. Truly disgusting. Hilarious, but revolting.

So even though i don't recommend speedos for everyone, i definitely have a strange fondness for them.

jesse

-- Anonymous, September 10, 1999

I agree that sometimes people look better naked than in certain swimsuits. My butt looks smaller naked than it does in a thong. Those high-cut eighties swim suits gave me big thighs and hips ten years before I actually developed thighs and hips. There is something about elastic pinching in on a line that should be smooth that just makes you look fatter.

That said, I'm still really partial to boy-cut bikinis. They don't work for everyone, but they work for me. On boys, I like baggy swim trunks; Speedos should be banned by international treaty.

-- Anonymous, September 10, 1999

Got together with a group of co-workers last night for dinner and consumption of adult beverages... amusing, raunchy, funny conversation that went on far too late into the night for people who have to get up in the morning... conversation somehow turned to swim suits and nude swimming and speedos... almost total dislike of speedos ("banana hammocks" someone termed them) except for an Australian in the group. He said he always wore them down in Oz, but the first time he wore them in the U.S. he felt everyone was staring at him in disapproval and scorn so that he hasn't been able to wear them since then while in this country.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 1999

Any woman who doesn't like speedos on a man had better be swimming in a t-shirt and shorts. HIPOCRITE!!! Think briefly about your position and try to find some rational explanation for your prudish and ultra-conservative view of the opposite sex and compare it with what you wear to the beach or pool. Blatent statements about this (or any physical appearance issue) are almost always utterly debased when the attire of the speaker is observed. What what you say - whatch what you wear!

-- Anonymous, December 19, 1999

I have worn brief swimsuits ever since I was old enough to shop for my own clothes. I don't understand why anybody would want to wear yards of heavy wet fabric in the water.

BTW, I've had both complimentary reactions from attractive women and obnoxious reactions from the illbred. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the sort of person who would disapprove of a man wearing a functional and good looking swimsuit. Please keep your puritanical nonsense to yourselves.

-- Anonymous, December 20, 1999

I think people should wear whatever they're most comfortable in. Whether it's a bikini, boxer, whatever. This is one of the things that's great about living in America. Freedom of choice.

-- Anonymous, December 20, 1999

I personally thing that a man in Speedos is gross. It is kind of like they have to put "it" on display to prove to everyone that they are really a man. The last man that looked good in a Speedo was Greg Louganis and that was more his talent in diving than his wardrobe.

I also don't understand fuys in Speedos. When they go to the bach they cover up with shorts, when they go to the snack bar on go the shorts. It seems that the shorts go on and off all day to cover the suits--wouldn't be easier to just wear the shorts to swim in?

-- Anonymous, December 22, 1999

What happened here? Did some Speedo Dude Anti-Defamation League get ahold of this topic or something? Dear boys: I am not a prude, but your little pokey things look silly and scare children when you display them in slings on the beach. I feel the same way about thongs and padded bikini tops. Deal with it.

-- Anonymous, December 22, 1999

MOMMY!!!!!!! Look at that man!!!I can see his THINGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EWWWW!!! Sheesh what a bunch of uptight prudish little girls. I feel sorry for your husbands or boyfriends. Typical sexophobic response.

-- Anonymous, December 23, 1999

Typical creepy exhibitionist response. Jimbo, Speedos are ugly. We'd rather see you naked than in a banana sling. Don't assume that everyone who doesn't want to look at your body is a prude.

-- Anonymous, December 23, 1999

I love the bikinis and thongs. You're free wearing them and get a great tan. Tight boxer swimwear is a second. I won't even wear the baggy type. Men love to look at women wearing next-to-nothing, I suppose women like that about men too.

-- Anonymous, December 27, 1999

When a person is racist, he despises someone of not his own race, but he forgets that he belongs to a human race too. This is sad for such people who cannot stand others not wearing the same swimwear as them. To ridicule or even despise others proves that his mentality is not mature or even civilised. Do you condemn wreslters for wearing a little piece of triangle in the ring, esp American wrestlers, as compared to full-attired Mexican wrestlers? Do you condemn Brazilian sambal dancers for wearing thongs as compared to a Chinese dancer? Wake up! This world is cross cultured, mystical, ever-changing and do not look down on others who do not share the same taste as you! I personally approve of speedos, thongs and boxers. I prefer speedos as it is reall light and not obstructive when doing lap swimming. Trunks are also alright when not doing serious swimming.

-- Anonymous, December 28, 1999

The direction this topic is going reminds me of the Oscar Wilde comment about how the only thing sadder than men wanting to be loved for their bodies are women wanting to be loved for their minds. (He was gay, so it takes no great intuitive leap to understand why he picked on the women.)

I don't bring this up because I think this is true. However, I do think that the parts of the human brain that are quicker to believe this gets much more stimulation in our culture/society/media, than other parts of our brain. I don't know why this comes to mind, but this has made me think of the dry, boring version of The Jackel with Richard Gere and Bruce Willis. In the climactic scene, Bruce Willis is getting ready to execute Richard Gere in a train station, when, in the nick of time, Gere's ex-girlfriend from the IRA saves him by shooting Willis. In the How Do We Make This Movie More Lame formula for story endings, Willis is not yet dead, and Gere has to shoot him again before Willis can kill them all.

Mr. I'm Fucking Enlightened Because I call Myself A Buddhist And Talked To The Dali Llama just couldn't have the movie end with the woman saving him. Someone had to ask Bruce Willis to please try and shoot Richard Gere again, because the bullets from a woman's gun aren't good enough to save the Free World.

...now i had a point here...oh, yeah... My point is, Richard Gere had to shoot the final bullet into Bruce Willis, because if he didn't, he would have looked like a loser to that part of the human brain Hollywood caters to. I also think that this is the reason that it's so easy to disapprove of men in speedos. Showing off like that reeks of the need for approval of the men's body, which the much of society finds sickening. To the part of the human brain that cares, a guy in a speedo looks like a loser.

This brings into question why it's acceptable for women to then wear bikinis. Does anyone imagine that an obese woman in a bikini is going to be ridiculed to the degree of an obese man in a speedo? I think a woman in a bikini would have to be exceedingly fat for a guy to mention to his buddies how grossed out he was by her presence. I imagine it would only take an average man for a woman to mention to her friends how grossed out she was by him.

I think we see situations like this because it's ok for a woman to look like a loser, but not a man. Look at what women have been getting heat for: being assertive (bitch), advancing in the ranks of the military, charging men money for sex (a la Jerry Springer), making lots of money in general (a la Naomi Wolf). Our gender roles are creating a lot of pressure to behave this way.

If Oscar Wilde's comment were to be revised for the new millennium, the only thing sadder than a needy man is a woman who doesn't know her place. I read somewhere that half of all the human beings who ever lived are alive right now. We have the means to leverage technology to sustain a larger and larger population, but all that means is that we are breeding more and more people who have made up their minds that their relationship with the world is the best one possible, and some of them are taking prisoners trying to prove it.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

I'm sorry Mike, wwwwwhhhhhhaaaaattttt?

What the hell happened to this forum topic? I don't understand why all these guys are getting their panties twisted (hee hee). The topic is "what type of swimsuits turn you on?", not "what type of swimsuits should men and women wear?". No one is trying to tell you what to wear, they are just discussing their likes and dislikes. I personally find speedos to be unflattering on men. I am sure most women would agree with me, almost every woman who posted to this thread does.

But, I am not saying you should not wear your speedo. If you are comfortable and enjoy swimming in something tight fitting, then you should wear it. Is it a turn on for me? I'm sorry, no. Is it a turn off? Almost always. If you are cocky and act like you on display is fulfilling my every fantasy, you are sick and wrong.

Does this make me a prude? I think not. I have a wonderful penis at home that I enjoy very much, thank you. Just because I don't want to see your package at the beach, do not assume that I am prudish, unattractive, or illbred, because I am exactly the opposite.

For Christmas my husband received a pair of flannel drawstring pajama pants. They are baggy and comfortable. When he is wearing them with no shirt, I don't think he could look sexier. I also very much enjoy him in boxers, boxer briefs(he looks just fine is regular briefs, but it's not a turn on) and just plain naked. But in a speedo? Never.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

If you are cocky and act like you on display is fulfilling my every fantasy, you are sick and wrong.

What you describe applies to men in speedos, but not women in bikinis? To convenional wisdom, the answer is yes. Why? Because cockiness is considered overcompensation for the need for approval. The need for which conventional wisdom finds sickening. Why is such a display unacceptable in men and not in women? Because we want women to be losers. That's why women are discouraged from asserting themselves.

Al Gore was criticized in the press for paying Naomi wolf $15k a month to consult on his campaign. We're so used to women being put in there place that hardly anyone noticed that Gore wouldn't have received such a criticism for hiring a male consultant at that price, and the few people who brought that up couldn't do so without looking like a radical feminist. That's how comfortable we are with putting women in their place.

I didn't change the forum direction (...uh, this time...). But now that it has, I'm just calling it like I see it. If you're going to disagree with me, I would prefer if you directed your disagreement to what I said. I never referred to anyone's prudishness, or penile accessibility. Why would I? I've got one, and it hasn't done me a whole lot of good.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

Personally I think the whole speedo/bikini-man/woman situation can be summed up as follows...

Remember the Song by the Eagles Hotel California?

Pay attention to the following lyric "She got a lot of pretty boys that she calls friends".

Can you not hear the sexism in that? Women are trying to opress men all over the world, yet our subconcious minds (men's minds that is) are stuck in a proverbial "Hotel California".

"We stab it with our steely knives (Steely knives=our penis) but we just can't kill the beast(beast=the opression of women)!"

We have been conditioned by society to look at each other as french toasty like things.

In our media drenched society of thongs and speedos, you cannot help but surmise that we are indeed products of carnation instant breakfast!

But hey, bran muffin ya know?

Thank you all!

PS- I totally gree with EVERYTHING Mike said! Thanks Mike!

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

Mike, the only part of my post that was meant for you was the first line. I was not disagreeing with you, I just didn't quite get what you were saying(I understood the beginning, but you lost me with the Richard Gere/Bruce Willis reference, I understood what you were saying, I just didn't understand the connection). And I did not mean that you had changed the direction of the forum. That was changed with the first guy who got pissy because no one (men included) wanted to look at him in a speedo.

The rest of my post was directed at the gentlemen above you, have you read them? If you do you will find the basis for my comments about being prudish, unattractive and illbred. None of that was meant for you. If you are going to direct something at me, I would appreciate you for reading all statements and not assuming that I am speaking only to you.

As for cockiness/display in men v. women, I know many many men who don't appreciate thong ass in there face at the beach either. But it is all a matter of taste and opinion. I was only stating mine, and I believe I said so.

Although I appreciate your views on the oppression of women, I find it funny how people can take song lyrics so many different ways. I always loved the words to Hotel California, especially the part about the woman who drives the mercedes and "has a lot of pretty pretty boys that she calls friends". I always just assumed that she was using the shit out of all the men she was surrounding herself with. A different way of looking at it is, "We stab it with our steely knives (your penis), but we just can't kill the beast(the beast being the vulnerability of some men where women are concerned)" I always thought Hotel California was about weakness and vulnerability in people, but that was just the way it came across to me.

I myself have always been an assertive gal.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

Wow.

Hey there mike! Long time, no see, eh? I saw this topic in e-mail and decided to read a couple of them instead of just doing that mass-deletion I've become accustomed to. Whoo boy!

Although with friends like cap't tal, who needs people to make you sound even more confused?

Uh.. hmm.. off topic. Let me get back.

I think you were on the right track with the flaunting bit, though.. it's what society has conditioned (and a little bit of what we have left of our instincts) as being desirable in the opposite (or same) sex.

For women looking at men, it usually is not the package. I mean, it just sorta of hangs (or stands) there, just, like, well, it's not very well integrated into the body.

So, instead, men are usually evaluated for their body.. their pecs, arms, thighs maybe.. and their facial features - well defined, and of course hair (or if they have the right features, lack of hair).

Women, on the other hand, have sexual add-ons that flow well with the body, and thus become the focus of attention. Breasts and butts mainly. Then the rest of the body package comes in with the arms, legs, waist, face, etc... but the focal are those what those little bikinis highlight and accentuate.

Now, guys usually will get kudos from women for having a nice ass in a pair of jeans, but men don't wear things because those nice smooth globes from a pair of jeans turn into two hairy melons when divided by a piece of dental floss. And men, unless there is something I'm way behind the times in, don't generally go in for waxings and hair removal.

So, uh, the only benefit from an aesthetics point of view of a speedo would be that the body is more exposed, so a better developed stomach and waist, and legs would be shown.

But that is, of course, countered by the focus then placed upon the penis, the package, the schlong.

Which, as we all know, outside the arena of sex play isn't the biggest turn on for, well, anyone. (I mean, come on, women only buy Playgirl for the articles).

Some prefer speedos because they're used to them, or grew up with them, or are 'swimmers' or divers and know them to provide a performance boost due to reduced drag. But, basically, a man's unit isn't his best (visual) asset.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

Your first line, which was directed at me, and the rest of your comment, which was directed at the previous comments, required a dilineation I was unable to make. Thank you for making the distinction.

I'm not so much interested in protecting women, or the right of men to wear speedos. But the conventional wisdom, women in bikinis good, men in speedos bad, is inconsistant, and made scarier my an almost universal acceptance.

Jung made an analogy to a bed of pebbles: each mass in a bed of pebbles could average 145 grams, but no one expects more than a few of these pebbles to measure 145 grams. No one sweats over the idea of a normal pebble.

In human beings however, the farther away from normal you are, the more conventional wisdom tells you that you are a loser. I don't want to deny anyone's right to their opinions. I don't want to change your mind about men in speedos (not a taste I ever think about). It violates your idea of what is normal.

What I am interested in is seeing what it takes to get people to abandon their idea of what is normal. The idea of normalcy is comforting to the individual, because it's safe. It's the axis of the world on which an individual can stand. Normalcy, however, is completely useless to everyone else. It closes peoples' minds to considering other possibilities, which stunts innovation. It's a muscle in our brain that gets too much exercise, and people don't know they can turn off. When I read comment along the lines of I like what I like, and that's all there is to it, it doesn't give me much confidence that someone who lives like Ebenezer Scrooge is missing out on anything at all.

If you read any Joseph Campbell, he sometimes goes into stories of sleeping gods who turn their backs to the world, like the Indras of the Hindu dramas who get pulled back into the world. Back and forth and back and forth. I just see too little of what keeps drawing them back.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

As for Hotel California, I think interpretive reinvention is fine. It has contributed to the success of that song in particular. But you should know that in various interviews, Don Henley, and I think Glen Fry, have said that they were trying to create a vague Twilight Zone-inspired song when they wrote it.

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

Jeez guys, I was kidding! I was rambling incoherently for a reason.

It was actually in response to Mike's earlier post. I was trying to be absurd and make a joke.

Sheesh!

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

I'm glad you let us know you were just kidding, Captain Tal. For a while there, it was hard to tell whether you were trying to be absurd, or if you're what passes for a comedian in the Vulcan Imperial Guard.

Live long and prosper, Henny,

-- Anonymous, December 29, 1999

When I'm walking along the beach in my Speedo with my massive unit on proud display it never fails to annoy me how the women with their massive units on display think they're hot but I'm not. Not only that, but they then cover their intolerance with weak excuses like, "sorry, it's just a matter of taste." I suppose that's the same reason they give for not liking black skin.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

(Geez... I guess the bigger the penis, the shorter the explanation...)

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

I am hoping one big joe is trying to be funny with his comparison of racism with general sexual preferences of what is appealing to one sex (or sexual preference) over the other.

If so, it's a poor, poor joke.

If so, I can't even begin to comprehend how women (and other men, and children) not wanting to see a man's penis can even have anything to do with racism.

-rich http://www.inferiority.com

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

Rich I hate to disappoint you, but I think your hopes are too high.

Let's face it, we are talking about a man who actually said, "massive unit on proud display".

Excuse me while I vomit.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

if the women in bikinis good, men in speedos bad mentality, and the make room for the promising underqualified white employee but not the black guy mentality, can both retreat to the I like what I like and that's all there is to it dismissal, why can't they likened to the same cowardice?

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

When I was working on a waterfront, speedos was what we wore, and that's what I got used to wearing. It didn't bother me at all. Speedos make sense if you're in a work situation where you have to pull pants on over your suit when you go up to the cafeteria for lunch, but if the fashion changes, it changes.

Ten years later, I'm at a water park with 2,000 other people, about half of them male, and I think, golly, I'm the only guy in a speedo. I wasn't embarassed, and nobody pulled their screaming children out of my way as I walked around, but I felt like I was wearing blue jeans to the gym: no reason not to, but nobody else does it.

At least we don't have to wear those full-coverage striped outfits any more. Or hats.

There may be a double standard on swimwear, that women get to wear a layer or two of lycra and guys have to wear boxer shorts; we get them back in business attire. Pockets, and lots of them. Shoes that can be run in if necessary. Neener neener neener.

Then again, there are those damn ties... but we're a bit off topic. I'll shut up now.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

Well, you could look at that another way ... women don't "get to" wear layers of loose fabric at the beach, even if we want to. They don't make women's swimwear that fits that definition. We get tight lycra whether we want it or not. And contrary to what someone said earlier, I think plenty of people are willing to make rude and obnoxious comments about women who are perceived as not being svelte enough for their lycra suits -- and never mind that there's no other kind of suit available.

I don't like pink cars. I think they look tacky and silly and it's just a rotten color for a car. But that's just how I feel about it.

Gosh, does this mean I'm as bad as a racist? How about this:

Feathered hairstyles should have died with Farrah Faucett's career. I find them dreadful and overdone and ugly, and that's just the way I feel about it.

How bad am I now?

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

I wear surf shorts. They feel safe and have pockets I can put shells in. I don't wear Speedo, I have a skiny body and a paunch and I might catch sight of my reflection.

I do like thongs, however, because I like to look at women's bottoms.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

women don't "get to" wear layers of loose fabric at the beach, even if we want to.

So by inverting the question, the cowardice gets dismissed? Somehow the women in bikinis good, men in speedos bad mentality makes the loose clothes on men good, loose clothes on women bad mentality? Revenge is OK?

Sounds like we've given ourselves a license to be weak, which seems like a repulsive compromise to me, because little by little, it does reinforce the make room for the promising underqualified white employee but not the black guy mentality, because we lack the introspection to question our own personal agendas. We don't even know that we have the option to be strong.

You're not bad. But in evolutionary terms, there are a lot of you. Whatever Nature provides to feed on you will not go hungry. (MicroSoft? The feather-haired mob perhaps?) I just hope your trip is worthwhile.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

Maybe cowardice isn't the word I'm looking for.

Maybe I need to break things down a little more: my understanding is that in life, things either rise like cream, or they float like shit. In a tiny domain of all things human, I can spot cream, and I can spot shit. Anything outside that domain, I am on shaky ground. Opera for example, I have no discipline for sitting through. You stab someone, and instead of bleeding, they sing. It doesn't make sense to me. By whatever tiny grace I can claim, I wouldn't presume to call it shit.

If I can try another bad analogy, I am currently reading a book called Level 4 Virus Hunters of the CDC co-written by Joseph McCormick, a former Hot Zone chief in the CDC. He gives an anecdote of asking the official of an African to search for the source a highly contagious hemorrhagic fever. The motive for searching for the disease was a huge abstract leap for the African official, which in the end, he was unable to make. Why is he searching for the disease that kills people? He, to his credit, did not dismiss McCormick's request, and gave him the permission he needed to conduct his search.

From my observations of people, if that government official had been American, and he couldn't make the abstract leap, as the African official couldn't, the shit floats bell would have rung in his head, simply because we mostly overestimate our own limitations, and he would have done anything he could to obstruct McCormick's progress. It's an attitude I imagine I see every time I step outside my door.

What has this got to women in bikinis good, men in speedos bad? I saw the direction of the forum turn, and saw some people questioning the shit floats bell being rung for reasons along the lines of I like what I like and that's all there is to it, and it's one of those rare causes that inspires me to interfere in, and possibly clarify things.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

It's easier to make shit and convince people that it's cream, by attacking anything new as shit.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 1999

I came in late. What have you kids gotten yourselves into this time? I swear, if the word 'cocky' is used one more time in this conversation, I'm pushing the big red button.

-- Anonymous, December 31, 1999

Well, beth, the Charlie's Angels move may be a bad, bad thing for fashion; we'll have to wait and see if it causes a resurgence of feathered hair. I doubt they'll have the new angels using old styles, but they're supposed to pass the previous set in the airport, and you might get another chance to see Farrah, Kate and Jaclyn with feathered hair...

Boys and girls, it could be worse. Clothing-optional beaches could be all the rage, and legal everywhere. Great suffering zot, but that would not be a good thing.

-- Anonymous, December 31, 1999

Mike, mike, mike...

All the hostility. Just kidding.

I understand where you are coming from, of course, but based on a liberal use of your comments, you could liken someone who prefers wrought iron to oak banisters on a stairway to a racist.

The attractiveness of men to women and women to men (and, well, of course men to men and women to women in those circumstances), I think is more instinctual and aesthetic than the learned hate of racism. On a simplistic look at 'it is what I prefer,' you could start to draw your parallels, but what you need to examine is the underlying cause for those preferences, not the preferences themselves.

-rich http://www.inferiority.com

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2000

I understand where you are coming from, of course, but based on a liberal use of your comments, you could liken someone who prefers wrought iron to oak banisters on a stairway to a racist.

Nice try Rich, but banisters don't have the potential to shoot up a schoolyard because they don't know the difference between revenge and having a spine. (Banisters are decent people...)

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2000

I'm sorry that my honesty has been confused for hostility. I never intended to punish anyone else for their honesty.

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2000

Gee, Pamie, you don't post for a few days and see how restless and rowdy the crowd becomes....

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2000

Actually, the banister analogy would be more fair if 90% of American homes had the same style of banister, and the people of the remaining 10% of abnormal banisters hardly ever got eye contact from the majority, clique leaders questioned everything that came out of their mouths, they got paid an uneven amount for the quality for their work, and more was said behind their back than to their faces.

There are no banister stereotypes. There are masculine and feminine stereotypes, and if you don't fit any of them, the people who do fit them think that gives them a license to enjoy the suffering of others.

-- Anonymous, January 04, 2000

i'm just waiting for muu-muus to come back into fashion.

-- Anonymous, January 04, 2000

Oooh, Irene, we could bring that fashion trend back! I think if a few of the readers of Squishy join us, we can easily bring back the muu muu... or however it's spelled. I'm up to the task. Anyone else?

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2000

i call the muu-muu that homer wears when he decided to be 300lbs and work at home on disability. that's MINE!

plus, no more shaving! whoo-hoo!

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2000

"I don't want to look like an idiot. I'll take the muu-muu."

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2000

Wow, I just read this thread today, and man, it seems to have gotten way off track (until the last few posts).

These are my opinons and mine alone!

I like speedos on a nice, sculpted athletic body. (It's that hip-dimple thing.) Same for bikinis. BUT, I prefer surfer-style trunks on guys, and less skimpy and even one-pieces for women.

In regards to the following Mike comment: "Does anyone imagine that an obese woman in a bikini is going to be ridiculed to the degree of an obese man in a speedo? I think a woman in a bikini would have to be exceedingly fat for a guy to mention to his buddies how grossed out he was by her presence. I imagine it would only take an average man for a woman to mention to her friends how grossed out she was by him."

I have to say that all my life I've seen the exact opposite. Furthermore, if a woman appears to be inappropriately dressed (skinny or overweight), OTHER women are quite likely to comment as well. I just haven't noticed many groups of guys going, "Omigawd! Would you look at how lumpy his Speedos are? WHAT was he thiiiiinking!"

Whatever my personal preferences, I think people should wear what's comfortable for them as individuals.

Pass the muu muus, please.

-- Anonymous, January 06, 2000

I have a loofah!

Man, this thread wins for longest-running. It's cold out, people. It must be the yearning for the swimsuits.

Here's my take on the whole thing: I cannot control swimsuit design. I cannot control the color, the shape, the sparkle, the amount of fabric. I can, however, recognize what pleases my eye. A nice tattooed diver standing at the top of the fourteen foot board with the water glistening off of his muscles clad in only a small blue speedo-- sign me up.

But most of the guys walking around Barton Creek-- I look the other way.

Whenever I'm wearing a swimsuit I'm convinced that everyone is staring at every imperfection on my body. I've made myself so paranoid about this that I've gone swimming in shorts and a t-shirt over a swimsuit, just so I didn't feel so self-conscious. Of course, wearing all of those clothes made people stare at me and wonder why I was dressed for fall.

I think that people assume that everyone is looking at them when they are in a swimsuit. For that reason, they will passionately defend their choice in clothing. How long did you spend picking out your outfit for prom? Do you remember what anyone else wore?

Bottom line (tee-hee): it's just a swimsuit. it's only for a few months in a year. if you don't like it, don't look. if I don't like it, don't fling your clothes at me.

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2000

i have a little trick for solving the "they're all looking at me in my swimsuit:" i take my glasses off. really- i'm blind and every is a colored fuzzball, so if they can't see me, i can't see them. hah!

the BEST suit i ever wore, i still have- i was visiting my grandma in sun city, AZ, (retirement community, scarily clean), and for unknown reasons, had to get a new swimsuit. there was little to buy in the area for a 15 yr old (my god, a ten year old swimsuit i can still wear?! whoo-hoo!), so i ended up with a turqoise and purple paisley one piece with soft cups (added bounce), and TOTAL butt coverage. yeah, i may LOOK 76 yrs old in it, but i don't have to shave. so there!

*grin*

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2000

A speedo is definitely the right choice for me, as I'm into lap swimming and not for gawking or playing in the pool. A thong would be nice on a less crowded beach just for sun-tanning. If you cannot stand what I'm wearing, the bottom line is: Don't Look! Wear what's comfortable to yourself. Be Yourself!

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2000

pamela said:

"I have to say that all my life I've seen the exact opposite. Furthermore, if a woman appears to be inappropriately dressed (skinny or overweight), OTHER women are quite likely to comment as well. I just haven't noticed many groups of guys going, "Omigawd! Would you look at how lumpy his Speedos are? WHAT was he thiiiiinking!"

Thank you Pamela! I was thinking the same thing. Women get a lot more flak for being "fat" or wearing the "wrong thing" than men do, which isn't to say men don't get ANY.

Personally, I'd rather everybody wore relatively modest suits (no thongs or Speedos) or...went naked. Well, if we could deal with that, which we can't, because we're American.

I also think that part of the reason women make catty comments about paunchy,hairy men in Speedos is that subconsciously, it angers us that they feel unselfconscious enough about their imperfect bodies to parade around displaying them.Whereas we know that if we had the female equivalent of that body, we'd never come within 5 miles of a body of swimmable water.

Not that that's a good thing--it just IS.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2000

For some reason, this whole conversation has really bothered me. I know that women have to deal with a lot of pressure based on the way they look, but are we assuming that men are not body conscious at all? If so, I guess I'm a freak. I worry about how I look a great deal of the time and it's based on how I feel about myself, not on my attractiveness to the opposite sex. And I find it incredibly insulting that I'm supposed to be embarrassed that I have genitals. Cause that's what we're talking about. Beer guts and hairy backs aside, people don't like Speedos because they reveal that, yes, that man does indeed possess the equipment that makes him a man in the first place. If you've ever seen a pair of Speedos, you'd see that there's a liner inside, so it's not like you can tell someone's religion if they're wearing one. So, we're upset about a lump. That's the only thing you don't see if a man is wearing any other kind of swimsuit. I've never worn a Speedo in public in my life, but I'm almost tempted to do so now. Not really, but I'm trying to make a point.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2000

I find it incredibly insulting that I'm supposed to be embarrassed that I have genitals. Cause that's what we're talking about. Beer guts and hairy backs aside, people don't like Speedos because they reveal that, yes, that man does indeed possess the equipment that makes him a man in the first place.

Jeff, that is exactly what I wanted to say, but was too wishy-washy to find the words for. Everyone please disregard the shit I said before, and replace it with what Jeff said.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2000

All praise Jeff!

Men shouldn't be ashamed of their lumps and the more exposure they get the more comfortable we will all feel. Speedos ( and Bikinis, for that matter) aren't for everyone but I don't think its appropriate to slam those who feel comfortable in them.

Jes

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2000

Well said to the above comments! I agree totally that those who are comfortable with Speedos should continue to wear them. Be true to yourself. And the thrill of water gushing at your almost-bare body is such an unexplainable feeling. Let's be proud of our manhood, and not be hypocritical about men's genitals.

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2000

I prefer brief (speedo) style swimsuits for the following reasons. 1) Clothing should be functional, and this includes swimwear. If you do anything but splash around in the water you will find that baggie 'dork-shorts' really slow you down. They are very un-aqua-dynamic. I swim 6 - 8 miles per week-- that would correspond to a lot of chapped crotch from wearing long trunks. 2) I like demonstrating individuality. Being 30-something, I am far enough removed from high-school that I get irritated with the lemming mentality that we must all look the same, follow the same fashion, etc. Even though my wife prefers dork-shorts, she knows I am going to 'do my own thing' so she puts up with it. In summary, I wear a speedo (actually the brand I prefer is Adidas) not because they are fashionable but because they are functional. When speedos come back in style, as they probably will, I will still wear them because they are functional.

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2000

The problem with boxers is they look good only on Sean Connery and they have such drag and lack enough elastic to stay on. There is an altrnative not mentioned so far. That is men can wear women's bikini bottoms. They stay up and give support to to glutes. Also they allow freedom of movement. The first speedo was made from panties as I remember. Women can wear thongs but why did it never develop that guys could wear jockstraps on a beach?

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2001

Okay, maybe I'm just a hormone-driven adolescent, but I think, on the right guys, speedos are soooo hot. There's nothing more stimulating than seeing the award-winning lifegaurds at my local beach in tiny green grape smugglers. Mmm.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Bikini swimwear turns me on, both when I'm wearing them and when I see other guys wearing them.

I don't like the long board shorts because they seem too heavy in the water on me and block my view of the goods on other guys.

-- Anonymous, December 27, 2001

I myself prefer those 'dental floss' of thongs.. I've got a few pairs of em in black. Just a patch to cover my jewels and strings to cover my crack. I love it. I feel so.. free. The last thing I'd want to happen when is myself havin a pale bum. Whenever I go to the beach/pool whatever, I don't go there to swim. I go to have a tan, to relax, to chill out, to people-watch.

Before anyone makes some comments - No.. I'm not obese. (5 ft 10 and 97lbs..think of some model from from vogue and chop off their tits and their hair). And I'm not old (I'm 19, to be honest) and I don't show my bits to teeny little girls (oh please.)

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

I wore speedos on HS on the swim team. I looked DAMN good in them. Several thousand cases of beer later, I still don't have the body taboo to keep me from wearing them, but I am very selective of Wher and When I wear them.

Water skiing on the local lake is not the place to wear the old "marble bag", but friends at the private pool or secluded swimming hole and we might just forget the speedos altogether

I think I agree with the lady earlier, it is whats comfortable to you.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002