I've been reading the various comments as to the selenium toning of fiber based papers to achieve deep blacks. I've tried it and only get reddish hues I have been mixing 1:3. As somewhat of a novice im not getting the same effect others are, why???

-- ken gridley (kgridley@sprynet.com), September 05, 1999

Answers

What paper are you using? Some papers, such as Ilford FB Warmtone, will produce reddish tones when toned in selenium. Be sure to use a cold tone paper if you want is a neutral color.

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), September 05, 1999.

1:3 is also too strong a mix IMO for most papers. I tend have better luck in the 1:15 to 1:25 range.

-- Jeff White (zonie@computer-concepts.com), September 05, 1999.

It's normal, also with cold tone FB papers.

You should dilute at least to 1+9, and tone at exactly 20 degrees Celsius (not higher, but not lower also) and when you then tone longer than 4 minutes it'll become reddish.

Some dilute 1+19 for archival purpose only, not to enrich blacks.

-- Lot (lotw@wxs.nl), September 05, 1999.

BTW, 1:3 solution is for intensifying film, maybe that's your mistake.

-- Lot (lotw@wxs.nl), September 05, 1999.

There are some cld tone FB papers that turn reddish browm with Selenium. FORTE is one of them. I use dilutions of 1:3, 1:9, and 1:19 regularly depending on the effect I am looking for. I have found the diluting Selenium 1:9 with Perma Wash and toning for 6 minutes intensifies the blacks and leaves Ilford MG IV FB Glossy with a wonderful deep purple/black color.

Even at 1:3 I have not had a problem with any paper other than FORTE turning reddish brown.

Recently I read an article that indicated that toning ILford MG IV FB longer tham 6 minutes actually resulted in a decrease of the intensified DMAX. It may have been in View Camera or Camera Arts magazine.

All in all I use Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner at 1:9 for 6 minutes. I get great results and have been very pleased.

-- Mike Kravit (mkravit@mindspring.com), September 05, 1999.

The answer to your question is: Selenium (and many selenium compounds as well) is red. When it attaches itself to the silver in your print it starts to change the color. Many papers have a geenish hue to them and this is first neutralized. Continued toning shifts the prints more towards the red. This is a very general description, differeinces in the toning effect will occur depending upon the exact compsition of the paper, the dilution of the toner (read, strength), temperature and a number of other variablesl. So, if you don't like the red tone, use a high dilution and find a paper that doesn't turn red in selenium (like Cachet). If you do like the reddish browns then use a higher concentration and find a paper that accepts toning well (like Oriental Seagull). Hope this answers your question. Regards, ;^D)

-- Doremus Scudder (ScudderLandreth@compuserve.com), September 06, 1999.

I think that some of the above answers are misleading. The dilution of the toner does not affect the final print color, only the rate of toning. If you are using a cold-tone paper and want only a slight color shift, a more dilute toner will give you more control. However, immersing a cold-tone paper in a concentrated selenium toner solution will *not* result in reddish tones, regardless of how long you leave it there! I should note that most modern cold-tone papers (especially VC papers) are fairly insensitive to selenium and, IMO, must be toned to completion to get any kind of decent image color. A 1:3 solution will accomplish that more quickly than a dilute solution.

If you are toning a warm-tone paper, such as Ilford FB WT or Agfa 111, diluting the toner will slow down the toning process and, with care, you will be able to just neutralize the olive-green color--if that's what you want. Be careful, however: once the shadows start to turn reddish-brown, the print must be toned to completion or else a very bizarre-looking split tone will result.

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), September 07, 1999.

reddish tones will appear on warm toned papers at high dilutions (anything below 1:5) generally. above 1:5 toning will still be rapid but it is possible for more control - especially if you want that split tone affect. cold tone papers usualy don't do much at all. and rc prints just really suck with the selenium. the best papers to get great tones with selenium are agfa portriga rapid and agfa insignia. oriental will do not much at all....the blacks just get blacker. forte warm tone turns just red. not so much subtlety as with afga

-- james luckett (luck@primenet.com), January 13, 2000.