Just heard on the radio that there's a power outage in downtown Chicago. elevators not working, street lights out, newsman said this couldn't come at a worse time...turn your radio on for details, heard it on KFBK 1530 Sacramento

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999

Answers

So what.

-- hypester (hype@hype.com), August 12, 1999.

http://chicagotribune.com/news/metro/chicago/article/0,2669,ART-32828, FF.html --------------------

Power outage hits downtown Chicago

By Charlie Meyerson

Tribune Staff Writer August 12, 1999

A power outage left four CTA stations in the dark this morning. It was at least the third time this week, that a power outage has hit Chicago. Today's power outage reportedly affected a number of locations -- including a some high-rise buildings -- in and near downtown Chicago.

Early reports related the outage to a fire at a North Side Commonwealth Edison substation at Grand Avenue and Orleans Street. ComEd has scheduled a news conference for 11:30 a.m. to answer questions about the outage.

Chicago Transit Authority spokeswoman Maria Toscano said the outage struck four CTA stations around 10:20 a.m. They were the Chicago/State station on the Red Line; the Halsted and Clinton stations on the Blue Line; and the Clinton station on the Green Line. But she said trains were running on schedule, with additional CTA staff on duty with flashlights to help people through the darkened stations. She said the CTA was working to restore power to the stations with portable generators.

-- Alexi (Alexi@not-in-the-dark.com), August 12, 1999.

Thursday, 12 August 1999 17:02 (GMT)

(UPI Spotlight) Chicago hit by more power outages CHICAGO, Aug. 12 (UPI) - An apparent failure at an electrical substation (Thursday) has caused widespread power outages in downtown Chicago, blacking out office buildings, condominiums, transit stations and Union Station in the South Loop. Traffic signals stopped working or blinked red and Chicago Transit Authority stations are dark. Firefighters responded to a hazardous materials alert at an exterior vault that houses electrical transformers.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), August 12, 1999.

The Chicago Mercantile - commodities traders? Had no phone service? MCI-related?

-- james burke (connections@who.knows), August 12, 1999.

Yes, must have been Y2k. Doesnt matter what "they" say caused the problem. Its a cover up and its all Y2k.

4.5 months to go, everything will be blamed on Y2k by the end of the year. Got tin foil ?.

-- y2kfreeeaaaak (y2kfreak@powerstation.com), August 12, 1999.

How about an "OT" until there is some definitive connection between the outage and Y2K. Or are we going to see every glitch "guilty until proven innocent." Where's the Y2K causes drought in Mid Atlantic post?

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

Com Ed says they don't know what caused the fires.

Also, this is not normal for Chicago.

Deborah

P.S.

I rather like my tinfoil hat. It is very stylish & sets off my eyes. It also acts like a reflector & keeps me from getting hit by cars when the power is out.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Actually Mr. Decker, it wasn't off the subject, I posted it on Marias thread "Thought to ponder cause and effect." Please read the thread, my post was a follow-up. And furthermore, even if I put OT in front of the post you would have read it anyway.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

I don't have a tinfoil hat, but I do have a full metal jacket.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 12, 1999.

Actually, I ususally choose to read (or skip) posts on based on the author or title. For example, if Andy posts something with NWO in the title... I'll pass. If this is your idea of Y2K-related discussion, Bardou, fine. This knowledge will save me time in the future.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

I find myself in agreement with Mr. Decker regarding this thread. If we are to blame every malfunction and disaster on Y2K, then the ridicule that follows will be most deserved. Someone said that this is not normal for Chicago. Guess what, tornados are not normal for downtown Salt Lake City but they do happen. I realize that a power outage anywhere these days will raise the Y2K eyebrows, but folks this stuff has been a part of our lives for a long time. What we are able to discuss with some credibility is the real world effect that is created by these situations and how documented Y2K failures will impact our lives. To be a GI is to apply some common sense to events of this nature.

-- For (your@info.com), August 12, 1999.

Thanks for the info, Bardou! See what I mean about the "disrupters?"

While this may not be related to Y2K, anytime there is a power outage in a large city, (like NYC recently) it's interesting to see how the people react. It sort of gives us an idea of how things might play out just in case....

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

For--I did not blame this outage on Y2K, I was just giving the report as I heard it on the radio, and if someone out there who can get the specifics on the cause and effect then they can report on it further, which someone did. Mr. Decker, there's a lot that I skip over too, and I'm glad whoever reported the tornado in Salt Lake City yesterday didn't blame it on Y2K.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

It's not that simple. Obviously, there is a lot of "red truck" syndrom going around and it will become far more intense over the next six months -- and not only on the part of GIs.

But you'll notice bardou said nothing in her top post that this was Y2K-caused. In fact, most similar posts have been careful not to assume a problem is automatically a Y2K problem.

OTOH, it is more than reasonable to assume that many actual Y2K impacts, both those occurring now and those still to occur, will be described without reference to Y2K -- for political, PR, legal and market reasons.

To be specific, the Chicago outage could be a Y2K impact, resulting from testing. We don't know and we aren't going to be told.

Moreover, it is sometimes a difficult call whether Y2K is involved and opinions may differ. I consider a malfunctioning SAP system that was brought in to replace non-compliant systems to be a Y2K impact, though the SAP system itself is also compliant. Most fellow IT professionals who aren't SAP-fanatics will understand completely.

So long as caution is expressed about the true cause (not a problem on this forum given that while the doomers may err in one direction, the pollys err equally in the other), I look for and expect reports on this forum about everything ranging from refinery explosions to power outages and more.

I'll make the judgment about their relevance to Y2K on my own. Regrettably, given the inadequacy of the published data and the political/psychological turbulence of the way it is interpreted, I have to do that just as I have had to for the past two years.

Those who aren't interested should indeed skip the thread.

Thanks for posting this, bardou. Not too much longer now.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), August 12, 1999.

People, welcome to Yourdon's forum and get used to it. We've been discussing everything and anything, news, trends, what makes trolls tick and sometimes we discuss Y2K if there's something new to discuss.

A good way to quickly become a "Yourdonner" is to go back to the archives from the beginning and read for about a week (2 weeks would be better) before you post anything here.

That's called "net etiquette". Computers with net access being as common in households as t.v.'s these days, the net etiquette has gone out the window when the couch potatoes came in.

If you want to skip reading archives to get a feel for this forum and just jump in, don't be surprised if the longtime residents jump on your case, as I'm doing.

Mr. Decker, you're smart and knowledgable, you could spend your time more constructively other then nitpicking at what's Y2K or not Y2K related. Any subject relating to us humans is y2K related in one way or another in a philosophical and social sense.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 12, 1999.

Decker commented:

"How about an "OT" until there is some definitive connection between the outage and Y2K. Or are we going to see every glitch "guilty until proven innocent." Where's the Y2K causes drought in Mid Atlantic post? "

Yes WORLD we have had a y2k problem and we may not be able to correct it for some time.Please go out and stock up on food and cash!!

Decker, do you really believe that we will get a straight story from ANY of these folks????

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

This is not just 'a power outage', it is just another in a long string of constant outages.

I could think of several reasons besides y2k, deregulation, an overtaxed system that simply wasn't designed for such a high demand, ancient equipment.

I don't know the reason, but I do know this is not 'normal'. Unless it is the new normal, and reliability of sevices is simply a memory.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

link

The third major power outage this week for Commonwealth Edison darkened a number of high-rise buildings, plunged CTA stations into darkness, and threatened to trigger further blackouts before the situation improved.

In a noon-hour news conference at ComEd's Jefferson Substation, 828 S. Jefferson St., ComEd senior vice president Paul McCoy blamed the outage on the unexplained failure of two of four transformers at the substation -- one last night and the other this morning after 9 a.m.

Coming a week after another transformer at the station was taken offline for repairs, the failures left the station with just one working transformer. To protect it from overload, McCoy said, the company deliberately shut it down this morning.

McCoy said the area affected by the outage is bordered by Hubbard Street on the north, 14th Street on the south, Throop Street on the west and the Chicago River on the east.

McCoy said that ComEd would replace one of units at the Jefferson station today and another early next week. But he said he could not predict when service would be restored.

But he said that ComEd had asked a number of businesses in the areas affected to cut nonessential use of power. And he said ComEd may have to suspend some customers' service to complete repairs.

Buildings evacuated The outage meant an enforced holiday for hundreds of downtown workers. Justin Klestinski, 27, a sales representative with Scudder Kemper Investments, 222 S. Riverside Plaza, said he was on the phone with a client, using his computer, when the power went out shortly before 10 a.m.

"I had no idea what was happening," he said. "It was pretty much pitch black except for some natural light from the windows."

He said backup lights came on within about five minutes, when he and coworkers then walked down the stairs from their 27th-floor offices.

He said he didn't plan to return to work but would still be able to contact clients. "We have cell phones. We can get work done," he said with a smile.

CTA stations dark Chicago Transit Authority spokeswoman Maria Toscano said the outage left four CTA stations without power around 10:20 a.m. They were the Chicago/State station on the Red Line; the Halsted and Clinton stations on the Blue Line; and the Clinton station on the Green Line. She said CTA workers used flashlights to escort passengers in and out of the stations.

But she said power had been restored by noon to the Chicago/State and Green Line Clinton stations. She said CTA trains on all lines continued to run close to schedule, with only slight delays because of signal failures.

The outage skirted the area around Union Station, leaving Metra commuter service unaffected.

Tribune Staff Writer Charlie Meyerson also contributed to this report.

-- more (more@more.more), August 12, 1999.

Maybe this just expresses how vulnerable and interconnected we are, and reliability of sevices is becoming a memory.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), August 12, 1999.

A few points here.

1. There have been MANY more reports of power outages and computer failures lately than is normal. True, this could be bacause of more attention being paid to such reports, the hot weather (at least in the States) or other factors that are not related to the topic at hand. It still strikes me as very odd. Some of the explanations are just hard to believe, like two different outages due to squirrels in two different locations in almost the same time period.

2. NONE of these problems have been attributed to Y2K as far as I know. Some have cited "computer glitches" as a problem but not specifically Y2K.

3. Over half of the largest companies in the US have already said that they have had at least one "mission critical" Y2K related failure. If you take just the Fortune 1000 then that would mean that some 500 companies have had Y2K related failures.

4. There are almost NO reports in the news about Y2K failures (I know, I've looked). There are many "computer glitch" failures (epecially lately) but they are almost never called Y2K failures. So where are all these documented failures? Either the companies are lying and have had no failures, or they are stating different reasons for their Y2K failures in their public statements, or simply not telling anyone about them.

I am leary of people who claim that all failures and problems are Y2K related, almost as leary as I am of people who claim that NONE of them are Y2K related.

-- John Beck (eurisko111@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

The question of whether the power failures over several days could be related to the Telco problems is relevant.

"The Chicago Mercantile - commodities traders? Had no phone service? MCI-related?"

-- james burke (connections@who.knows), August 12, 1999.

-- Tom Beckner (xouttbeckner@erols.com), August 12, 1999.

I am only 42 years old, and yet I can remember in my short adult life the time when our phone was a party line, and when electricity etc. was NEVER reliable.

Y2k aside, why on earth should we believe that any man-made technology or device will be reliable all the time? Our internet server is down alot around here. Panic? No. I just find another way to do my buisness.

Hell, the only thing I should be able to rely on all the time is myself, and Lord knows I'm not %110 every day.

Having lived in large Yankee city-jungles in the summertime, I have noticed they aren't able to handle heat anymore than we can handle snow. Wasn't Chicago the place where a couple hundred people DIED during the '96 heat wave? Someone from the Windy City refresh our memories. I haven't heard that they have had an equivalent death toll this year, so they must be getting better at dealing with it anyway.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 12, 1999.

Two points very much related to Y2K.

First, I see us embroiled in a game of musical chairs. Today's chairs represent the portion of the generation and distribution system that is functioning at any moment, and those of us circling the chairs are the customer demand load. My grid operator would have me believe that New England will have twice the capacity that is really necessary at the time of rollover. I believe that means *assuming* that all possible plants are on-line, and *assuming* normal weather conditions, and *assuming* whatever other factors are never specified. So, I very much want to pay attention to the health of the industry (along with the number of functioning refineries) as we approach rollover, whether the immediate problems are y2k-related or not.

Second, as much as we yammer on both sides that *of course* noone is going to tell us that a problem is y2k-related, we may eventually learn a great deal more than we expected to. I'm thinking, in particular, of the newly-adopted y2k liability act. The liability protection only applies if it is, in fact, a y2k failure. So, both the defending companies as well as any insurance companies whose policies exclude y2k events will have tremendous incentive to show it was y2k-related.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

better a few domino,s now--instead of ALL at once=no???

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), August 12, 1999.

CHICAGO (AP)  The Chicago Board of Trade closed an hour early today after a power outage affecting the downtown Loop area threatened to expand.

Board officials made the decision to close the markets at 1 p.m. CDT after speaking to Commonwealth Edison CEO John Rowe, said board spokesman Bret Gallaway.

The board's chief executive officer, Thomas R. Donovan, wanted to ensure an orderly shutdown, avoiding the potential chaos if power failed with as many as 5,000 traders on the floor, Gallaway said.

"This is a tremendous disruption of trading,'' Gallaway said. "The last minutes of trading are often some of the busiest trading of the day.''

The Board of Trade's agricultural markets normally close at 1:15 p.m. and the financial markets normally close at 2 p.m.

Another financial market, the Chicago Board Options Exchange, halted trading temporarily this afternoon and planned to switch over to backup generators, a spokeswoman said.

The problems were blamed on the failures of two power transmission cables, which left 2,300 customers in the heart of downtown Chicago in the dark. The cables are at a power substation just south of downtown that has been having problems since a transformer failed last week.

The Chicago Mercantile Exchange remained open.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), August 12, 1999.

Thursday, 12 August 1999 18:22 (GMT), (UPI Spotlight)

ComEd WIDENS OUTAGE

CHICAGO, Aug. 12 (UPI) - ComEd has ordered (Thursday) power shut off to a wide area including parts of Chicago's Loop because of a power outage that has taken out three of four transformers serving the West Loop, and Near West and Near South sides.

The utility ordered power shut off between Adams Street and Roosevelt Road, and between Michigan Avenue and Dearborn Street, roughly a square mile, to prevent a more serious power failure.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

2:00 CDT, ABC Radio News just reported that in order to keep the last (4th) transformer from failing, ComEd has resorted to a "Rolling Blackout" contingency plan that has left almost the entire South Side of Chicago without power.

ComEd has no timeframe for when they expect power to be restored. ComEd did not comment on the actual cause of the transformer failure.

Can anyone say "Dominoes"?

Wonder what happens if menial systems all about the country have a similar problem like ComEd is having --all at the same time?

--Got candles?

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 12, 1999.

....instead of blaming Y2K, can we please blame El Nino? ....btw, Deborah....your hat IS very becoming! :) Mark

-- mark (marklin333@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

The utility ordered power shut off between Adams Street and Roosevelt Road, and between Michigan Avenue and Dearborn Street, roughly a square mile, to prevent a more serious power failure.

Leska,

Thanks! I have some friends at the Shedd Aquarium with their babies today, I have a phone call to make....they have some very messed up traffic to avoid!

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

All you stooopid silly Doomers quit noticing these real events! They have no application to real life whatsoever. Plus don't you know Y2K is fixed, history, nada? GET OVER IT !!! Everybody's done, has multiple redundant drilled contingency plans, and doesn't need YOUR nose in THEIR business! Why, they're better than ever at their business. That's why, when there's an interruption, nobody can tell, because their back-ups seemlessly pick up the nanosecond slack and everything hums along without a missed beat. The original 'glitch' is fixed immediately by smiling engineers.

This is what's REALLY happening so quit imagining these blackouts! You all need to go see your Doctors.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

Just Go Manual

-- Jack Off (elbow@grease.needed), August 12, 1999.

Okay guys, on WGN Radio a.m. 720, they were reporting terrible traffic on the Ryan heading into downtown, and then the male radio announcer said "Folks, I would like you to consider one word, y2k." !!!! The female traffic announcer laughed a very nervous laugh, and shakily said: "Don't scare people."

They also have reported that there will be no overnight trading.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Updated: Thursday, Aug. 12, 1999 at 01:10 CDT

TXU cuts power to Dallas buildings; Strained system prompts decision

By Mary Doclar Star-Telegram Dallas Bureau

DALLAS -- Heavy demand for electricity, driven by searing temperatures across the state left the World Trade Center, Apparel Mart and several other buildings along Stemmons Freeway without power yesterday.

Dallas Market Center, the company that owns the World Trade Center and other buildings, has an agreement with TXU Electric & Gas that allows the utility company to shut off power when demand begins to strain the system. In exchange, Dallas Market Center gets discounts on electricity and additional power during big events.

TXU had not taken advantage of the agreement until this week, said Bill Winsor, chief executive officer for Dallas Market Center. The electricity was shut off for the first time about 4 p.m. Tuesday and for the second time at 1 p.m. yesterday, he said.

"The fortunate aspect is this is a nonmarket period," he said, noting that the big markets for clothing and other goods are in January and July. "During a nonmarket period, it's not as significant as it could have been."

But the power outage inconvenienced several people who traveled long distances to shop, only to find the World Trade Center shrouded in darkness and a sign on the window explaining the lack of electricity.

The Dallas Market Center buildings operate much like a mall for retailers. The retailers can buy furnishings, clothing, jewelry and other goods at wholesale prices for their stores, a spokeswoman said.

"All I know is I spent $177 to fly down here for nothing," said Daniel Mezza, 30, who came to buy furniture for his San Antonio store. "I wonder who's going to compensate me for this. It's a blown trip."

TXU officials said they interrupted power to customers such as Dallas Market Center after a request to do so was made by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT, an organization of utilities and power producers whose goal is to have a reliable and adequate power system. They said high demand threatened the supply of electricity to places such as military bases, police facilities, hospitals and homes.

"It's not really a shortage of electricity, it's more an issue of carrying the power through the lines because the demand is so high due to the hot weather," TXU spokesman Ray Granado said. "There's an extra demand on those wires."

ERCOT Administrative Director Tom Sweatman said power interruptions have gone on all week to keep electricity going to residential customers and other key users. He said he expects the interruptions to continue during peak-use periods because of high growth.

"As each year progresses, the population grows, we have a booming economy and, of course, during the summertime the demand is the greatest," he said.

TXU officials could not provide details on how many other Texas companies experienced outages. The Dallas Market Center buildings that were shut down by the outage were the World Trade Center, Trade Mart, Apparel Mart and Menswear Mart, Winsor said. The 15-story World Trade Center has 3.1 million square feet.

He said fewer than 1,000 people were affected by the outage. Dallas Market Center had hoped to avoid the power outage by buying electricity from other sources, but it discovered that other companies had no reserves, Winsor said.

A men's apparel show scheduled for this weekend should not be affected by the electricity outage because weekend use is lower, Winsor said. The company is continuing to get updates from TXU and hopes to have plenty of power by the time another show begins, late next week.

Although TXU officials could not elaborate on what areas of the state are experiencing the worst strains, TXU spokeswoman Gyna Bivens said the problem is statewide.

"We learned yesterday that the system across the entire state was and is very tight," she said. "There's a need for a lot of power to get to areas all across the state."

She said similar interruptions occurred at some companies last August during the heat wave. But the situation is worse this summer because the area has continued to grow and the electrical system has not been expanded, she said.

"You've got more people and more businesses needing power but the same lines," she said. "Those lines can handle only so much power." --------------------------End Story------------

Heard on midday news they have shut down John Peter Smith in Ft. Worth today (one of the customers on this reduced rate plan). Don't know how they justify or deal with this at one of the major trauma hospitals in Ft.Worth.

Just as there are businesses in this situation, there are cities like Denton purchasing electricity from TXU when it's Bryan plant went down. States like New Mexico who (I believe I'm correct on this--I'm certain someone will let me know if not)purchase their energy from other states and do little to no generation themselves.

Now, if there are difficulties post Y2K, we can see our vulnerable partners...and I live in one of those vulnerable cities.

Although these stories may not seem Y2K related, they are in the sense that through following these events we have learned a bit more about the flow and dependencies and where each of us stand individually. I sometimes feel like a vacationer hiking through the Cascades who suddenly realizes that hey I'm not in a park! I'm in wilderness country with the wilde-beast!

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), August 12, 1999.

I guess I should have specified that the traffic nightmare is a result of the power outage.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Oh my God! A power failure in Chicago! THIS IT IT! Has anyone reported seeing the black 'copters? Has access in and out of the city been instituted yet? If not, get out FAST! THE GOVERMENT IS GONNA GET US ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Laughing at U (shakingmyhead@Uarenuts.com), August 12, 1999.

My husband works for a major power company here in California and he told me their cells phones are not operating today, and they've been having a lot of trouble with their FAS computers. I know, let's blame it on the solar flares, or Gary North, or.......

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

We were hoping our obviously ridiculous troll-imitation post above, replete with non-logic, would point out exactly why this thread is ON-topic for Y2K in several ways. But it went over the heads of certain trolls, sad to see. *sigh* They're untrainable, untreatable, unremediable. !Diable!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

The applicable lesson is not the direct cause of the incident (Yes - Sir Decker - it obviously is not due to year 2000 effects.) but rather the reaction to the failure.

1. So far, fairly calm and orderly = GOOD! (but we are not into the second or third day of the blackouts, and the fourth transformer apparently can't get fixed until Monday).

2. So far, significant economic impact - from only ONE transformer failure at one place! And the trickle effect (of the market closing etc.) has been in place only for a few hours.....

3. And the response by affected services and infrastructure is mixed: traffic impact was much more severe thatn expected, but the subway was kept in service (good thing they emergency generators!!!! - where did the flashlights come from - good test of contingency planning - if that was the cause.)

4. City overall - to be determined.

And this was ONE transformer in one place in one city - but we face only irregular power problems next January and February....

Like San Francisco's failure a few months ago - the SPREAD of the single failure is the lesson, not its single cause.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), August 12, 1999.

Deborah, thanks for that interesting radio report, and how considerate of you to warn your friends. There may be many people who wonder about Y2K way back in the background of their thoughts, but who don't voice it, waiting to "see." Doubt too many will actually be "shocked" in January if/when TSHTF!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

http://chicagotribune.com/news/metro/chicago/article/0,2669,ART-32828, FF.html

Power outage hits downtown Chicago

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

Let's face it. It doesn't matter if this is Y2K related or not. If things like this keep happening (power/telcom outages, ATM failures, things goining "boom " in the night, etc.), folks are going to freak out just the same. Like Leska says, LOTS of folks have Y2K in the back of their consciousness. Bank related failures (downed ATMs, messed up statements, inaccessable account information), Y2K or not, have the potential to create panic. The banking industies and utilites must be CRINGING at every failure right now.

"It's the computers, stupid"

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), August 12, 1999.

Keep the electrical outages posts coming. WE want to know these things as it helps us evaluate the reliability of the grid.

I heard there was a fire or something in an electrical substation in NYC, then the next report said that trains were skipping the stop due to debris on the tracks--which was it????

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

NYC? Underground? A troll sneezed. Did you see GhostBusters II?

-- rivers of pink goo (tunnels@under.bridges), August 12, 1999.

The story here in the burgh is, it was a transmission line failure.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

You can listen to people in Chicago talking about this on realaudio--go to website wlsam.com. Lots of jokes about Y2K. People saying that "I'm going to buy a backup generator."

-- Alexi (Alexi@not-in-the-dark.com), August 12, 1999.

Hi all,

This is an interesting thread. West Texas Utilities (WTU) had a fire earlier in the week at a generating plant. This has caused several ripple effects. First, people in west Texas have to conserve energy every way possible to avoid black-out conditions until the plant is operational again. Next, WTU can't sell power to TU Electric which supplies the metroplex. This, of course, is happening during extremely hot weather which is already a heavy burden on the system. 100+ temperatures forcasted for the next 7 days. Will we even make it until January?

-- Sharon in hot, dry, west Texas (sking@drought-ridden.com), August 12, 1999.

Probably not directly related to Y2k, but several lessons can be reiterated:

(1) Stupid little glitches can propagate themnselves, causing a big cacade of power outages that are difficult to contain. Kinda like fire. This is especially true during a time of extremely high load.

(2) Loads are being managed really badly, apparently, because of the "deregulation" transition that the power generation and transmission industry is now going through. With narrow surplus margins, power outage is inevitable.

(3) Power companies (ConEd?) whose facilities black out more frequently than others under normal circumstances are more likely to exhibit failures during the rollover.

(4) If there are severe stoppages or shortages in petroleum/gas products because of y2k, power demand will be much higher than normal because people will be using space heaters as backups for their lack of gas heat.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen on Jan. 1 vis-a-vis juice. I'll bet that there will be a lot of confounding variables like ice- storms, random vandalism, and coordinated terrorist attacks that will surely much things up. I'll bet that phone lines will be jammed from people calling to make sure their family are ok.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rockethship.com), August 12, 1999.

For Bardou : )

Electrical Blackout Darkens Downtown Chicago

Updated 5:00 PM ET August 12, 1999By Susan Nadeau

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Power outages hit two areas in and near downtown Chicago Thursday, sending workers streaming from buildings and forcing one big hotel to dip into its 2000 emergency supplies to fight the darkness.

Power was restored after more than an hour in the most densely populated area affected and no injuries were reported.

But during the height of the problems buses bulged with people trying to get home and police directed crawling traffic through intersections without traffic signals.

"Welcome to our Y2K preparedness party," said Robert Allegrini, spokesman for the 1,543-room Chicago Hilton and Towers as he helped hand chemically activated "glow sticks" to guests. He said the hotel gave out 6,000 of the sticks which it had on hand for possible power outages linked to turn-of-the-century computer problems this coming New Year's Eve.

He said one guest was stuck briefly in an elevator but the rest were led from their rooms, down pitch-black hallways, to safety.

Power was later restored to the hotel and the rest of an area covering 30 square blocks from the center of the downtown "Loop" southward, and which had less than an hour's notice that power would be cut off. But other parts of the city remained dark and officials said they hoped to restore power everywhere by Thursday evening.

Banks and exchanges in the city's financial center were blacked out for a time and the city's police headquarters operated on emergency generators.

The Chicago Board of Trade, the largest U.S. futures market, stopped trading early after warnings of the second blackout were issued. Roosevelt University canceled nearly 100 classes.

"I came back (from lunch) and there were all these people. The lobby was mobbed," said Theodore Gross, president of the school. He said he had to walk up eight flights of stairs to his office to retrieve belongings.

Demand problems caused by weather, which was cool and rainy, apparently played no part in the disruptions which were caused by transformer problems.

"I sent out an order asking everyone to leave the courts including several with juries, and we're doing it," said Marvin Aspen, chief judge of the U.S. District Court for Northern Illinois. He had just walked down 25 floors to the street.

"Our computers are down, our elevators are down and hopefully we'll be back to work tomorrow," he said.

The first blackout west of downtown involved a multi-block area where Commonwealth Edison said 2,300 customers lost power.

The problems arose after three of four transformers at a substation on the city's near North Side went off-line.

One of the transformers had been undergoing repairs for the past week and two other transformers shut down, leaving one working. A high-voltage cable also failed, a spokesman for the utility said. Firefighters helped some handicapped people out of darkened high-rise buildings, but there were no life-threatening emergencies, a fire department spokesman said.

The local utility recently came under fire for an extended blackout affecting North Side customers that began at the end of a deadly Midwestern heat wave. Residents and businesses were asked to file for compensation for food and other perishables that spoiled during the blackout.

Commonwealth Edison is a wholly owned subsidiary of Unicom Corp.

******************************

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Holy cow, Mayor Daley is furious. I'm listening to a press conference live.

Com Ed didn't notify the City ahead of time. He is accusing Com Ed of placing the health & safety of the people of Chicago in jeoprody. People in high rises, all the street lights that are out.

He is ranting. He says that Com Ed is so screwed up that they cannot handle all of their problems 'in house' & they need to bring in as much outside help as possible NOW & until their problems are fixed. Not just todays problems, their whole infrastructure. He is demanding that they bring in outside engineers & contracors & talking law suits.

He is accusing Com Ed of outright lying about their ifrastructure.

I have never heard him so P.O.'d.

I wonder if he believes they are ready for y2k?

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Whether it is Y2k related or not, this will be an interesting event to to watch. See how the public reacts. There are probably at lot of DGI in Chicago who with thinking about Y2k. SOME eyes will be opened and GI converts made. Today's failure may be what saves the life of a few in the future.

I am wondering what it will be like tonight in the downtown area with no power. I wouldn't want to be there.

-- Arnold (adahi@muhlon.com), August 12, 1999.

Sharon -- thanks for the info on West Texas Utilities (WTU) had a fire earlier in the week at a generating plant.

Has anyone heard any further info on the one close to Fairfield? That one (on first report) had to do with fuel controllers. Good show on the ripple effect.

Deborah -- I'd bet Daly is really worried at this late date. It's got to be a nightmare to be the mayor of one of these major cities right now.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), August 12, 1999.

[ Fair Use: For Educational/Research Purposes Only ]

8/12/99 -- 5:46 PM

Power outage strikes downtown Chicago

CHICAGO (AP) - Hundreds of downtown businesses, the Chicago Board of Trade and the federal courthouse were left without power Thursday after a series of mechanical problems shut down several transformers.

Paul McCoy, vice president of Commonwealth Edison, said cables leading from two big transformers failed Wednesday night and Thursday morning at a substation just south of downtown, leaving 2,300 customers without electricity. A third transformer at the station had failed Aug. 5.

ComEd began rerouting power from a transformer at another substation to help keep up with demand. That transformer overheated Thursday afternoon, forcing the utility to take another 670 business customers off line for over an hour. Power was restored around 3 p.m.

Thousands of commuters left early for the day, pushing the rush hour forward by hours. Extra buses were called in to handle the crush, and generators were set up in Union Station, which handles Amtrak and suburban commuter trains.

ComEd, which has more than 3.4 million customers in northern Illinois, came under fire last month when nearly 100,000 customers lost power during a severe heat wave. In 1995, ComEd customers also suffered outages during that summer's extreme heat, which contributed to the deaths of hundreds of people.

Last summer, the utility was a step away from imposing rolling blackouts after a series of problems left it short of power on a sweltering day.

Instead, ComEd asked residential customers to turn off their air conditioners for one- to two-hour intervals, prompting an outcry from customers, a watchdog group and politicians.

ComEd officials had been confident similar problems would be avoided this year, pointing in particular to improvements in its nuclear power stations.

A string of 100-degree days also has caused power problems in Texas.

In Dallas, bankers, jewelers and other merchants were temporarily out of business for a third consecutive day Thursday because of power cutbacks at the Dallas Market Center. Similar problems have shut down a shopping mall in Tyler, Texas, and left a Fort Worth hospital without air conditioning.
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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 12, 1999.

Just watched WGN News on cable about the power outage in my old stomping grounds.

VERY interesting.

Heard some REAL KEY phrases that kept coming up in their 15 minute coverage of this story.

Having been plagued with problems as ComEd has apparently ignored REMEDIATION and REPAIRs to it's ailing INFRASTRUCTURE in favor of producing juice created by nuclear power plant generation. The city is FURIOUS at ComEd for LYING about the status of their REMEDIATION and COMPLIANCE.

"They assured us that their INFRASTRUCTURE and CRITICAL SYSTEMS were COMPLIANT, and that we could expect NO MAJOR PROBLEMS since the disasters of the past two summers." said an official with the city.

"This is outrageous! They said they were ready to handle the city's needs!" cried an Alderman.

Ahhhhhhhh, the sounds of the wailings and gnashings of teeth.

BWAHahahahahahahahahahahaaaaahhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhaaaahhhahhaaaahhaha!! !!!!!!!!!!

Wuahaaaaahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Oh, sorry (wiping tear from eye corner), don't mean to laugh.....

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!

Oh this is rich. Not only does it now all call into question their cries of "100% Y2K Ready", it wakes folks up to the reality that their blind faith in an ailing interconnected infrastructure is just that,....blind.

It's all been an illusion. Faith in false gods.

Well, *sigh* get used to hearing this song and dance in the coming weeks and months. I'm sure this is nothing compared to the real fun that will begin later this year.

Got a call from the sis tonight from NW 'Chicago 'burbs - who is scared to death I was right all along about the utilities' and banks' claims of "being Y2K ready" as bogus.

Because until now, she said "It's not going to be as bad as you say".

Now she's really worried they've all been duped, and they could be in REAL trouble shortly.

She's planning on stocking up tomorrow.

I just wonder if most are going to just wait to do that until the power goes off in their 'hoods....when the stores are all "closed due to power failure", or if this moves the herd to be ready "just-in- case".

As I told the sis....better late than never, "but wouldn't you be sleeping easier if you had been doing stuff over this last year and a half instead of waiting last minute?"

Except, unlike Christmas shopping, this type of procrastination can kill you if you're not prepared.

Just ask the folks at ComEd.

BWAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 12, 1999.

chicago radio station WMAQ this afternoon reported that a spokeswoman for the power company had said they were doing y2k testing, but she could not verify whether the testing was the cause of the power outages. i wonder if she's been fired yet. i haven't seen this in other news reports, but then WMAQ is *all* news so they may have been the only ones who interviewed this particular woman.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), August 12, 1999.

And just think folks, all I reported was a power outage in Chicago and the REAL INFORMATION COMES ALIVE! My husbands's cell phone still isn't working or his FAS computer....and they are back to using the old fashioned method for generating work orders, over the radio. Thanks all of you for your fine work, time and attention to this thread! Keep it up!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

INVAR,

I heard an interesting word on Fox Chicago....DOMINOES, hmmmm.

Also a friend of mine was one of the poor hapless souls that had microphones shoved in their faces after being evacuated from work.

She said (to me, not on TV) she had been trying to phone work five hours after the power was reported as being restored, but the phones were still down.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

More brain lightbulbs going on as the light go off:

[ Fair Use: For Educational/Research Purposes Only ]

8/13/99 -- 12:02 AM

Power outage strikes downtown Chicago; CBOT shuts early

CHICAGO (AP) - If commodities trading wasn't hard enough, the Chicago Board of trade also has had to contend with a power failure and a communications breakdown in the past week.

The world's largest futures exchange was planning to open on time this morning after being forced to close early Thursday when a power outage struck west of downtown Chicago.

That will give traders in inflation-sensitive contracts for Treasury bonds a chance to react to a government report today on prices at the wholesale level.

It was the second glitch this week to disrupt the Chicago Board of Trade, which had to shut down electronic trading on Tuesday because of problems with a high-speed data network.

Then there was a power outage, blamed on the failure of two transmission cables under a street, that darkened hundreds of Chicago office buildings.

Paul McCoy, vice president of Commonwealth Edison, said cables leading from two big transformers failed Wednesday night and Thursday morning at a substation just south of the downtown area. That outage put about 2,300 customers west of downtown without electricity.

The utility was forced later Thursday to shut down power for about 90 minutes to another 670 business customers in a 30-block business district that includes the Board of Trade, the federal courthouse and many law firms after a transformer at another substation overheated.

That transformer had been helping to keep up with demand at the defective station. Power to all customers was restored late Thursday night.

Thousands of commuters left early for the day, causing rush hour to arrive hours early. Police struggled to keep cars moving through darkened intersections. Extra buses were called in to handle the crush, and generators were set up in Union Station, which handles Amtrak and suburban commuter trains.

The outage also darkened the federal office building and prompted the evacuation of several high-rise office buildings, officials said.

Board of Trade officials closed the markets at 1 p.m. after they were warned by utility officials that power was going to be shut down, said board spokesman Bret Gallaway.

``This is a tremendous disruption of trading,'' Gallaway said. ``The last minutes of trading are often some of the busiest trading of the day.''

The board's chief executive officer, Thomas R. Donovan, wanted to ensure an orderly shutdown, avoiding the potential chaos if power failed with as many as 5,000 traders on the floor, Gallaway said. The Board of Trade's agricultural markets normally close at 1:15 p.m. and the financial markets normally close at 2 p.m.

Rich Mollitor, a Board of Trade commodities broker, said things got chaotic as traders tried to get last-second orders through and then rushed out the doors.

``It feels a little bit like a little kid getting out of school early because of a storm. I guess this is practice for Y2K,'' Mollitor said.

Another financial market, the Chicago Board Options Exchange, halted trading temporarily, resuming around 2:15 p.m. after switching over to backup generators.

The Chicago Mercantile Exchange remained open.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you hear a mooo ?

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 13, 1999.

Ashton & Leska: I guess it is practice for Y2K. Practice makes perfect...or practice will keep you alive! The trolls don't want us to mention that this could be a Y2K problem do they? Got candles and Sterno?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 13, 1999.

Yes! :^D
whole buncha Bics too, can get a whole package of them at the Dollar store for cheap. If wheez po folk can do it, anybody can.

-- A & L (allaha@earthlink.net), August 13, 1999.

I would be less nervous if they had reported this as Y2k testing. Either it was y2k remediation related and went very poorly or the infrastructure in one of the biggest cities in the world is simply crumbling out from underneath the wind.

This is the town I was born in and so I am a tad sentimental about it. Happily, I no longer live there. Decker et all you better hope this was Y2k related because if it wasn't then we are in even bigger trouble than we thought. (If thats possible) Since apparently it doesn't take a little ole Y2k computer glitch to bring down Chicago. All it takes is a mystery problem. AND don't try to tell me that power outages happen all the time there because they don't. I know I lived there and much of my family still does.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 13, 1999.

check out this link

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=001EYS

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001EYS

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 13, 1999.

oops try this

2nd try

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 13, 1999.

Just got back from getting my coffee and bagels at Dunkin on Dearborn and Jackson, lights have been on for hours.No problems with hordes of looters. (Maybe they were one street over)

ComEd has a major problem with transmission facilities. This was in no way a y2k failure. If they are not successful with remediation I expect the sad shape of distribution will greatly exacerbate any real y2k failures.

The folks here in the Big Windy sure are not a panic stricken and scared as you folks, if y2k is a 10 you little rabits are toast.

-- Chief (bmc@sealresv.chitown), August 13, 1999.

au contraire big chiefy if y2k is a 10 you schmucks in sub zero population ghettoes will be ice cubes - us yourdonfors will be as warm as toast

asshole

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 13, 1999.

Dear Andy Rabbit, I might not be even in the CONUS. I've "got out of Dodge" my whole life. I know how to go early. You will be in your burrow, little rabbit. Dropping pellets.

-- Chief (bmc@sealres.chitown), August 13, 1999.

Thanks, Sheila.

For those of you interested the Abilene Reporter-News has an excellent article on the woes of the Texas electrical grid.

www.reporternews.com/index.html Surging electricity demands causes rolling power outages across Texas

snip-

3 power plants in the state remained out of operation Thursday, the biggest being a WTU coal-fired plant NW of Wichita Falls.

..."The nukes are running great, thank God" said Woods. (Comanche Peak nukes are on the list of 35 or so that are not compliant and won't be until say Dec 31., not much incentive to shut them down now, eh?)

end snip-

Also, while perusing the Abilene paper (not the online version, although it may be in there too)I noticed something that seemed peculiar to me.

The article states that "technicians are busy repairing the company's (WTU) power generator near Vernon, the site of Monday's mechanical breakdown. The completion time is not known." The next paragraph states, "WTU officials asked customers to cut back on power usage after a fire in its largest generating plant quenched more than a quarter of its generating capacity.

Am I being too picky thinking that a fire and a mechanical breakdown are not the same thing? (I know, I try not to read things through my Y2K glasses.) Just wondering...

Y'all try to stay cool.

-- Sharon (Sharon@drought-ridden.com), August 13, 1999.

Title the Chicago blackout and last Decembers San Francisco blackout as potential Y2K lessons (opportunities) learned... or not.

Above there was an indication that ComEd has resorted to a "Rolling Blackout" contingency plan.

According to my next door neighbor, a Group President in charge of Y2K efforts at a very heavy metal Silicon Valley corporation, hes said to expect brownouts and rolling blackouts in the Valley early next year. They are planning for it. (So are most electrical utilites, I suspect).

This is very much on topic. For those with eyes to see and lessons *still* to learn.

Diane

Power OUT In San Francisco

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000IIh

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

Chicago Tribune

.......Daley, his face flushed with anger, called on ComEd to bring in outside experts and crews to work "24 hours a day, 7 days a week" to rebuild the company's aging and failing infrastructure.

"We are sick and tired of them, and they had better change," the mayor fumed.

In a phone call earlier in the day, Daley said he told Rowe, "You better go to ground zero with that company. You ought to get outside contractors and outside engineers and get it done immediately."

Rowe, who later termed his company's performance "totally unacceptable" and "a personal disgrace to me," told reporters he had this response to the mayor: "No excuse, sir."

While Daley clearly was angered by Thursday's outage, he was furious about what he said was the company's failure to provide advance warning about the possibility of power going down in such a critical area of the city.

"You are putting people in jeopardy. Health and safety-- that is the issue. They failed to notify us . . . We have a responsibility to the residents and the businesses."

Daley spoke at a news conference at the city's 911 emergency center, where he gnawed on his nails in agitation between responses to reporters' questions and angrily vowed to bill ComEd for the cost of the city's emergency response, raising the issue of the company's legal liability for the outage.

snip

When you have problems with transformers, you better notify someone," Daley smoldered. "If they know that a transformer has difficulty on Sunday or Monday, we should have some preliminary warning. They are kidding themselves. If they are keeping it in-house, that is their problem.

"And it ended up right in their lap."

snip

After Thursday's outage, Daley pinned the problems on the ComEd bureaucracy that Rowe inherited, suggesting the chairman had been victimized by underlings who have provided him with false information about the condition of the company's infrastructure.

"Someone is lying," Daley declared. "Someone in that company has not told John Rowe the truth."

snip

BACKUP GENERATOR KEEPS TV COVERAGE ROLLING AS STATIONS RISK BECOMING PART OF NEWS

By Julia Keller Tribune Staff Writer August 13, 1999

When the going gets tough, the tough go to a backup generator--and consider the incident a dry run for potential millennial meltdowns.

"This helped us get our house in order for what may lie ahead," said Larry Wert, president and general manager of WMAQ-Ch. 5.

"We considered it a good test for Y2K," he said.

snip

Well, the dirty little word (y2k) is finally being spoken publicly, amazing.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

You go Deborah! Good follow up!

-- Sheila P (Sheilamars@aol.com), August 13, 1999.

Great thread :-) Ppl will pooh-pooh Y2K up the gazoo until they themselves experience a disruption. 2 X 4s necessary to knock the dimwit lightbulbs on. That mayor does sound agitated ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 13, 1999.

>>>"After Thursday's outage, Daley pinned the problems on the ComEd bureaucracy that Rowe inherited, suggesting the chairman had been victimized by underlings who have provided him with false information about the condition of the company's infrastructure.

"Someone is lying," Daley declared. "Someone in that company has not told John Rowe the truth."<<<

Now WHERE have I heard about the truth of a company's remediation and infrastructures not making it out of middle-management????....and the greater danger that kind of public spin control poses???

BWWAHAHAHAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!!!!

Hey everyone....it's all fixed....they're all "Y2K Ready", "Y2K A-OK", "Y2K Compliant", and "Y2KO'd at our company".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHHHHAAAAAHHAAA!!!!!!!!

Yes. Just wait until the blind faith in the gods of our infrastructure starts causing loss of life!

Bwahahahaaahhahaaaaahhahahhahhahaaaa!!!!!

Got my tinfoil hat on high and tight. You need one you know, if you're self-reliant and have preps to weather "inconveniences" according to Y2K Pro.

Bwahaaahahahahahahahahahaaahhahahhaaaa!!!!!

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 13, 1999.

Lin k

.......The fallout from the blackouts claimed its first executive. Paul McCoy, senior vice president for distribution and transmission, handed in his resignation two weeks after he was promoted.

(snip) more @ link

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

I just saw on the news that some businesses are going to file lawsuits.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), August 13, 1999.