I've been printing on Ilford MGIV RC since I started B&W, (3 months ago) and like The bright whites I get, even when selenium toned 1:20 for 5 min. I want to make a few prints for hanging and since "people" say FB is more archival and just plain better I thought I'd give it a try with ilford MG IV. I got a creamy color in the highlights that was even darker with Se toning. I used a two bath fix, 5 min wash, 5 min Se tone 1:20, hypo clear, and a 30 min wash. I like the bright whites of the RC better. Any recomendations for a FB paper/dev that gives the whites I want? Is my procedure sound? Should I drop FB and just use RC, for me archival would be 10-20 years.

Thanks for any help: Ryan

-- Ryan Olson (ryno@bitstream.net), August 10, 1999

Answers

Considering your requirement of 10 to 20 years, Ilford MG IV RC should be fine, especially when stabilised by selenium toner.

You did not, by any chance, grab MG FB Warmtone? This has a carrier with a pronounced warm colour.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), August 11, 1999.

Ilford MG IV FB has the same whites as MG IV FB, but FB tones much better. Ilford RC papers don't darken much in 20:1 selenium toner unless you leave them in for say 15 miuntes. RC papers are good, but when placed beside well done FB prints, the differerence is fairly obvious. This may not matter for your end use, but RC prints exhibited next to FB prints don't look so hot. Mt $0.02.

-- Gene Crumpler (nikonguy@worldnet.att.net), August 11, 1999.

Gene

Perhaps I am not sensitive enough to notice it, but isn't "fairly obvious" as little exaggerated? At least when the prints are behind glass, there is not much of a difference between FB and RC prints, provided both were done with equal care.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), August 12, 1999.

My comparions are made on a standardized, PSA light box for optimum print viewing and judging. Under these "so called optimum lighting conditions", without frames or glass, RC prints definitely come off looking second best to FB. I have setup lighting in my print handling area to duplicate these conditions and a few comparisons of the same negatives printed on both Ilford MG FB, glossy and MG RC pearl do show pronounced differences as to depth of the blacks, tonal range differences, and general "feel".

I also belong to a B&W Focus group that brings together about 15-20 printers. We spend two hours each month showing and critiquing prints in order to learn. The differences between RC and FB prints becomes fairly obvious.

Therefore I go head to head with several excellent printers twice a month, so I am highly motivated to produce the best work I can. In the case of viewing prints behind a frame in ordinary room light, you might not see a big difference. I've not done any comparions here.

-- Gene Crumpler (nikonguy@worldnet.att.net), August 12, 1999.

Ryan: I think there's a small but visible difference in the whites of the Ilford RC vs. the FB, at least when I process them. I've yet to test my washing technique, and this may be our problem (at least that's what I'm blaming it on in my darkroom).

-- John O'Connell (oconnell@siam.org), August 12, 1999.

John, I recently went to a shop that had sample cards from ilford with all their papers. Even on these I could see a difference between the RC and FB so I dont think it's our technique. I ran tests without Se toning and the difference between the two was less. Can anyone comment on the minimum time/dilution for Se toning that gives good protection? I've been using 1:20 5min 20degC. Thanks Ryan

-- Ryan Olson (ryno@bitstream.net), August 12, 1999.

Washing times might also play a part. I odn't know if Ilford puts flourescent brighteners in their FB papers, but they will affect the perception of "whiteness". They wash out with extended wash times.

In general, selenium toning should not affect the whites, only the blacks. The whites might appear whiter after toning because of the deepening of the blacks from the toning.

It is also possible that you are gitting a faint stain from improper toning techniques.

-- Jim Steele (jdsteele@erols.com), August 14, 1999.

I'm no expert, since I've been using primarily RC paper recently, but your problem may be inadequate washing between the fix and the toning. Unless hypo (fixer) is completely washed out, the selenium toner can cause a yellowish stain; in fact, some people use this as a rough test for adequate washing technique. 5 minutes washing between fix and toning seems inadequate to me for fiber paper. (You also don't mention how you are washing or whether you are using wash aid.) Maybe some others can comment.

-- Chris Patti (cmpatti@aol.com), August 16, 1999.