The analogy of Humpty Dumpty and post-Y2K is interesting, but I'm not sure it can sustain scrutiny, regardless of whether the coming event is a BITR or TEOTWAWKI. As most of us learned as children, all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put HD back together again.

I submit that putting the pieces as they exist now "back together again" won't solve the problem. As a nation and a culture, we have moved rather far afield of basic American ideals and principles over the last 50-60 years.

This nation is peopled by millions who expect something for nothing and who have little or no concept of personal responsibility. The move from free enterprise toward socialism--attended by an accommodating press and self-serving legislative and executive branches of government--has left us with a population that, in great measure, would plead for the beneficience of more government. Even if it means less freedom.

My point, I suppose, is that a worthwhile renascence probably can occur only if Y2K visits us with horrific results, ridding the planet of the takers and leaving in place the creators. That, of course, assumes the creators also were the preparers and are in a position to begin the rebuilding process.

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), August 06, 1999

Answers

FDR is considered a great President. However, the unraveling of the American constitutional system began with the New Deal. I suspect that any crisis situation will result in more demands from the public for nanny government. These demands will not be fulfilled because the tax base that supports it will be gone.

However, the pre- 1930's framework still exists under the mounds of socialist engineering legislation that has gummed it up. We could revive the old ways, in that the most powerful organs of government would be the most local, and the most responsive to the voters.

Y2k could be a sort of social emetic, causing us to barf up the alien socialstic implants. Notice how you feel better afterwards, once you've gotten it over with? Better to retch one good one than to be nauseated and sick for hours.

Our current obsession with Government largess brings with it two insoluable problems. If you expect government to take care of you, you surrender your freedom and autonomy. The other problem is that the welfare state always, always costs more and more, so you must surrender your wealth.

A constantly growing economy conceals this cost, but post y2k it will become apparent that the cost can no longer be borne. Also, interference from government will no longer be tolerable.

Just like our computer infrastructure, the Welfare State is a new historical entity. Although its intentions were good- who doesn't want to take care of the poor, the sick, and the elderly?- the corrosive effects of Something for Nothing, and our political system's addiction to buying votes, have merged into a cycle that is destructive to the foundations of society.

It is unlikely that the Welfare State will survive y2k. Unfortunately the State has been God and Parent to too many people who are counting on it to bail them out. It is unsustainable, financially and politically.

What will replace it? We will, you and I, by taking responsibilty for our own welfare and command of our own lives. Rough? You bet- kind of like a thirty something who is finally told that he has to stop living at home, and go out to make his own way in the world. In short, American society as a whole will have to Grow Up and Get Over It.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 06, 1999.

Forrest,

The problem that I have with the idea of "Nanny Government" is that it is "industry" that sustains it. Our legislators are pretty much bought and paid for by "industry." And, it's in "industry's" best interest, (apparently) to have a quiet, pliable, unquestioning populace. I don't think that "Nanny Government" is the problem. I think the problem is "Big Daddy Business."

He wants your money. He will seduce you with baubles and comedy. He wants you to want him. If you get out of line, he'll slap you upside the head. He's barely accountable for his actions. He shits in the river and makes "Nanny" clean it up.

I think the behavior of "industry" needs to be addressed. Through his bullhorn and pretty moving pictures, he has convinced us that "Nanny" is the problem. Meanwhile, he has created a system in which he has more "rights" than the people he serves. Have you noticed in the last few years how "Nations" have become "Markets" and "Citizens" have become "Consumers"? That's Big Daddy, whispering in your ear.

Yes, people need to be responsible for their actions. The example needs to begin with industry. You can pay now, or you can pay later...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), August 06, 1999.

This string, as I see it, stikes at the heart of "the powers that be", ie. Government and Industry. Both will survive a 4 to 9. Crippled but lethal. Fascism. The societal structure of Industry (business) and Government working together to make the lives of the masses "better".

This is the issue. There WILL BE be less freedom. The "basic ideals" WILL BE that we MUST come together for the "common good". The government bureaucrats and the corporate CEO's must work together to avoid losing their respective power. To exclude basic Christian values from the discussion are working hand in hand with the politically correct notion that mankind can and will evolve into a better being, simply by reaching down and grabbing the collective bootstraps.

This discussion is intriguing. I applaud Ed's return to the discussion and respect the parameters. The effective result however can not change Man's basic nature (devolution). The result can only be a healthy analysis of the challenges we face in light of a major infrastructure failure. IF we hit a 4 to 9 within 12 months of 1-1-2000, government will step in to protect us from religious fanatics and corporate pillaging. Stop war? Not a chance. Stop pestilence? Quite the opposite. Stop Greed? Are you kidding?

Rebuilding is possible, of course. It will be ugly for all but the truly politically correct heart. I wait for the Second Coming in prayer. Is God to be completely excluded from our destiny?

-- Vito Barbieri (Barbieriv@aol.com), August 08, 1999.

Things will never be exactly the same as before Y2K. We cannot "rebuild" to the status quo ante. Of course, there is nothing unique about Y2K in this regard. The same thing could be said about anything after any traumatic, destructive episode. Things get "rebuilt", rarely do they get "replicated".

-- Stefan Stackhouse (stefans@mindspring.com), August 12, 1999.

Regarding religion -- the "meme" whereby people seek an all-wise, all-provident "big brother" in the sky is the same meme whereby they seek a "big brother" here on earth (e.g., Franklin Delano Roosevelt).

Socialism, especially the communist variant, seeks to replace "big brother" in the sky with a secular version.

Communists said that "religion is the opiate of the people."
Religionists could say that "communism is the opiate of the people."
They are/would be both right.
"Just say NO to drugs." (opiates).

There will never be a free and peaceful society until people stop trying to shove their religious views and morality down the throats / up the nether regions of others. Nor as long as various bleeding hearts and busybodies think they can do a better job managing your property (including your income and capital) than you can. (Or who just want it for their personal enjoyment or pet projects, social or otherwise.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 13, 1999.