I sent the following message to a poster from TB2K on Monday of this week. I recieved the following answer today. He gave me permission to post it, but requested me to remove his name. I have done no editiing except to format it for this posting.

From: "Jon Williamson" pssomerville@sprintmail.com

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:55:40 -0400

Crude Dude:

Do you have any contacts or know of anyone who could confirm or deny to us the statement made recently by RC (the supposed ex-newsman) about crude oil jelling at 40 degrees farenheit, and that if this happens to a refinery it needs a turnaround that normally takes 90+ days?

Following is the response:

Yes, that is confirmed. We have refineries in North America that are exposed to cold weather conditions in the winter (at least when we have a cold one). These temperatures negate the use of certain crude oils depending on the logistics required to get them to the refinery as well as the water temperatures. For example, say you have a certain West African crude oil which has a high pour (which means it doesn't do well at low temps). You may still be able to bring that crude up to the Hess refinery at St. Croix but not to the Sun Refinery at Philadelphia unless you have enough heat on the boat (some are able to keep the crude heated). Additionally, you would not be able to run this crude through an unheated pipline in Wyoming in the winter. This would result in what's called in industry parlance, a "candle". Candles are bad, bad, bad for us. One of the things which is particularly dicey about Y2K is the exposure of domestic crude oil pipelines to winter temps and power outages.

My point here is that regardless of the pour point, (unless it's clean product like gasoline) most all crudes will gum up a pipe once they're sitting cold for a while. I've studied just about all crude oil pipelines in North America at one time or another related to accquisitions and divestitures. I can tell you that we are vulnerable on this point. The networks are extremely complex and sophisticated when there are NO problems. Anyway, sorry it took so long for me to respond. In order to maintain my anonymity, I maintain several email addresses. Hadn't checked this one in a while. Here's a Pour Point def. for you.

POUR POINT - Temperature below which an oil becomes semisolid and will no longer flow freely; an increase in paraffin content will raise the pour point. Note: Pour point and viscosity are not necessarily related, i.e., an oil with a high viscosity need not have a high pour point.

Part two of my reply to your question (PS-feel free to post these):

Here's the deal on refineries and abnormal operating conditions. Refineries are not designed to encounter long term disruptions in power and supply. Although they can be maintained in a "downed dormant state for some time", dependent upon a myriad of factors, including weather, it is preferrable to keep them running at all times. That's one reason why turnarounds are planned a year in advance or more.

So called "unplanned turnarounds" get refinery managers into much trouble. For those of you who are not familiar with the term "unplanned turnaround" it simply means something broke which we weren't counting on, we have to fix it and all traders should please now rake us over the coals in the marketplace.

Given a scenario where power is interrupted unexpectedly, a refinery can suffer a broad spectrum of impact. In other words, they could have no damage and little turnaround, on up to catastrophic damage requiring 90 days or more of work. As they say, it's a complex environment and everything depends on the state of the equipment at the time of the interruption, the process units running at that time, operator response and response times etc.

We can survive a few PLANNED interruptions as an industry. And even a few UNPLANNED interruptions. However, widespread frequent interruptions would have a very signifigant impact on refining and our entire economy. It would be somewhere south of Infomagic scenarios.

Now, can we all hope *REAL HARD* that the power stays up in January through April or so next year......

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 17, 1999

Answers

So, this isn't exactly bad news, it's just facts that everyone knows that is painted to look like bad news.

If power no heat oil = oil cold

If oil cold = oil doesn't run

If oil doesn't run = power no work

If power no work = Infomagic

Ah yes, pay no attention to that GIANT leap of logic behind the curtain that assumes the power won't be on. Just leave it up to that one last, dark sentence to sum it all up. We have to leave it up to HOPE which all humans know doesn't count for much when you get to the bottom line.

And so the meme saga flies on directly in the face of facts and logic. But hey, if we paid attention to facts and logic then what fun would that be?

You want facts and logic? Hmm, try looking up your power company online in your state and see where they stand. If you expect me to provide links to each and every one of your can dust off your lazy ass and give it a good swift kick for me.

As for my state everything looks alright. But then again I'm not infected with a terminal case of the heebie-jeebies so I don't question the facts. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to change anyone's mind around here. I just want to be the voice of reason. But much like OJ Simpson's prosecuting attorney I don't expect to be heard. The circus around here is just way too loud.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 17, 1999.

Guess that lends a whole new meaning to having CANDLES ready for Y2K...LOL

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 17, 1999.

*snip*

Now, can we all hope *REAL HARD* that the power stays up in January through April or so next year......

*snip*

I did not make it at all clear that the above sentence was one I added, not part of the note I recieved.

Is there a problem in hoping all goes well next year? I have children, I have a delightful new bride, I have a new house. I have a job I like.

My problem is that my job lets me talk to quite a few technical people. I'm a headhunter. I hear both good news and bad news from people who are very much on the front lines. I hear other news from family members who I trust, who have their own contacts.

The good news can be very good. Started 4 years ago. All done, all tested. Team disbanded. Over a year ago.

The bad news can be very bad. A Fortune 200 company that started a year ago. They are not sure they can run their production lines next year.

From my own personal contacts, the bad news outweighs the good news by AT LEAST 2-1.

But, like Albert Speer, I can still *hope* for victory.

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 18, 1999.

Don't talk like that you silly boy. I'll have to put my fingers in my ears and sing r-e-a-l loud, "LA LA LA LA LA LA." oOOOOO, earwax! Yummie!!!!

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

*S*I*G*H* Children these days.

Could it be an infection of the dreaded "Polly Meme"?

What the heck is a meme, anyway? Is it described in a medical journal anywhere? I hope it is not like a mime, I don't really care for mimes......

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 18, 1999.

Gee that was a real good imitation, so colorful it was almost lifelike. Yet it still lacks that grain of sarcasm I can so artistically weave into my posts. Keep up the good work, you'll be appreciated one day too. Good Artists paint! Great artists steal!

-- (doomers@suck.com (the real one)), July 18, 1999.

Jon, that funny because in my life the good news outweighs the bad news 3-1, with the one exception of this forum where bad news is paramount. Go figure.

-- (doomers@suck.com (the real one)), July 18, 1999.

Jon--(You compare yourself to Albert Speer?---hmnmm, odd.)

Good reporting, thanks. I get very tired of these neurotically kneejerk and predictible responses to information that come with every posting of a serious nature. I know these people are terrified and behaving in a counterphobic way, but it's getting to me...

I do pray the electricty stays up...believe me.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

By the way there is a regular around here that likes to rip off a handle and post ludicrous nonesense in hopes that everyone else thinks that they are the real person, in some effort to discredit I assume. Just goes to show that the Doomers are not as noble as they claim. There is at least one backstabbing little toad who can't think of any better way to bicker.

How do I know it's a regular? Hell I've been around this forum alot longer than soem of you think. I first starting coming here back in November 1998, and I know about all of you, from Old Git to Hardliner to Jimmy Bagga. I've seen the kids come and go on weekends just like most of you have. I've had plenty of time to see which way the wind on this forum is blowing. And it's heading into meme land believe me. As much as I hate CPR he makes a good point. You people are way to high strung to be unbiased on this subject. God forbid you ever land in a jury box in a Y2K litigation lawsuit.

So you see, I'm not the flash in the pan troll you guys are making me out to be. I'm a troll that goes back a ways. Oh yeah, I got the inside scoop on everyone here, old and new.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Jon,

Allow me to rejoice with you and your 'delightful new bride!' The Good Book commands all of us to do so.

Like you, I have my own reasons NOT to want it (the infrastructure) to 'ALL go away in January',yet it seems that the preponderance of the evidence seems to indicate that it just may.

BTW, I happened across the Web site for the DELTA-T embedded system remediation company out of England (www.embedded-science.com). They permit the downloading of the instruction manual for operating the DELTA-T in PDF format. I did so and am thrilled at its contents. The manual is a complete course in embedded systems, including what will 'break', how to remediate, what to look for in an unknown circuit board, together with COPIOUS color photographs of actual examples of these systems. I believe I now have as good a 'sense' for the size and complexity of that part of Y2k as can anyone short of actually engaging in remediating an actual system (having an old 286 motherboard helps in following the instructions).

Jon, give my regards to your new bride, and I for one deeply APPRECIATE your sharing,within the limits of confidentiality, your insights into progress on Y2K!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 18, 1999.

Jon, while your at it, could you figure out what I'm doing here? I was looking for BA.com (Buttheads Anonymous).

Got link?

-- (doomers@suck.com (the real real one)), July 18, 1999.

Hey Dr. Fraud,

I'm hip to you, your not as original as you think. I've seen your handiwork for weeks now and if anything it's only reinforcing my opinion of this forum. You can be the head Truth-Nazi, how'd that be? Make sure that absolutely no truth gets in the way of the Emminent Domain, right Herr Imposter?

-- (doomers@suck.com (kids, no respect)), July 18, 1999.

Please explain the engineering dynamics as to why the electric power will go off.

-- treading litely (rs@marketwatch.com), July 18, 1999.

Even if the good news outweighed the bad 3:1 (which is dubious), what does that prove? What most of us have said all along: about 75% of companies should be OK. It's the 25% or so that won't that concern most of us.

And BTW, I love good news, as do most posters here. But I would say the bad news is at least as common as good, objectively speaking. We'll see how it plays out, but there's too much bad news to keep your head buried in the sand. But, that's your choice.

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 18, 1999.

There are no engineering dynamics, it's just a big untested theory. One which, I might add, doesn't hold water.

Just look at the title of this thread which was my whole point all along. There isn't any bad news here. It's just a summary of what will happen if the power goes off. Nothing in the original post concluded that the power will in fact go off, it's just a picture of what will happen if it does. But somehow this tactic has been seeping into the collective brains of everyone around here. I'm telling you, the reason why the TB2000 Preparation forum was started is because this one went to the dogs. Even the people who used to be lucid are now tunnel visioned. It's going to take the final coup de gras to make them see that they were mistaken. That being 1/1/00 of course.

And as a matter of course I'll get run off here in double quick time marching order and that is okay. "Trolls". ha

They have even given an evil name to their "enemies". Classical cultism. Look back on the threads of this page. It's all bad news, much of (OT). But do they care? Nah, it's all gravy for their Doomsday dinner. The Y2K debunking sites may be cruel and immature at times but take it from me they have no problem admiting it.

The weasel who steals handles is your little D&G lackey I see. Just one more exhibit in the Y2K cult museum. I came here and riled some people up but not once did I ask anyone to stop preparing. No my whole shtick was to stop being such a paranoid space cadet jumping at shadows. I endure your Pollyistic insults because I care THAT much!. Prepare for the end of the world if you want to, fine. But do you have to be so damn cynical? Your digging yourselves a hole.

Your right though this isn't about Y2K anymore. It's about every falling out that every human has ever experienced with the nickname Y2K slapped on it with a little red bow in a sad little package. Face it, your doomers tried and true. Conjure up your worst personality traits and every mistake you ever made, and then hop on down to the place where everyone knows your name.

It's Y2K! and your going to pity party like it's 1999.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

www.it-director.com/99-07=16-1.html Opportunity knocks???

-- treading litely (rs@marketwatch.com), July 18, 1999.

OOOPPPSSS!!! http://www.it-director.com/99-07-16-1.html

-- treading litely (rs@marketwatch.com), July 18, 1999.

Thanks , Jon, for the post.

One more question, Why can't memes become mimes (silent)? I guess because they have nothing intelligent to add.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

Sue -- "meme" is derived from the cry of the Polly Troll, "Me, me! Me, me!" Their habitat is any frothing cauldron of mixed personality disorders, borderline and beyond. They are easily identified by their main habit of hanging out at shopping mall food courts, excitedly discussing their latest purchases from Spencer Gifts (they often demonstrate their replacement whoopie cushions, a lifelong affection, to complete strangers). Juvenile giggling with thigh-slapping and chair-tilting give them away at a distance. They very often dress far too young for their age and are given a wide berth by co-workers. Y2K Polly Trolls may be seen at shopping centers on any weekend, purchasing more and more consumer goods requiring vast amounts of electricity (the only can opener they own is electric). Other Troll Spotters have their own particular means of identification, but the above should be enough for the amateur to begin his or her own hobby.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 18, 1999.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 17, 1999. wrote: *****You want facts and logic? Hmm, try looking up your power company online in your state and see where they stand. If you expect me to provide links to each and every one of your can dust off your lazy ass and give it a good swift kick for me.****

So I'm supposed to listen to the PR flak at the power company?

I'm an Ameren UE customer. Their PR flak sez their ready. I have 2 employees that live on my couny road. They both recently bought generators.

I think the chance of power failures (localized) and brownouts is a non-zero probability. Therefore IF the power goes out THEN candles will be made.

Have trouble with that logic?

LM

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), July 18, 1999.

Boy! The noise/signal ratio has really shot up. Solar flare perhaps?

Everything is connected to everything else. We are considering here what the consequences might be IF things go wrong at any particular point in the chain. One of the characteristics of Y2K is that it is impossible to know with certainty just which links might break. The links that DON'T break we don't have to worry about (except that we don't know in advance which ones won't break, and even the ones that don't break might be affected by the ones that do break). doomers@suck.com - you seem to hold the belief that there is NO Y2K problem because all the links will hold. Or that some particular link will hold. Then why oh why do you hang out here. Go on with your life. Don't worry... be happy. Live well and prosper.

geez.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), July 18, 1999.

'A mime is a terrible thing to waste.'

from Robin Hood: Men in Tights

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), July 18, 1999.

OutingsR:

Your "source" for the meme is totally incorrect. The term was coined by Zoologist Richard Dawkins to denote a gene-like or virus-like unit of culture. Its complexity is discussed in Aaron Lynch's article "The Millennium Contagion."

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 18, 1999.

Jon,

Very interesting post, chilling too. Something I'd like to find out is "How long of a power interruption can an oil refinery handle before the jelling effect sets in?"

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 18, 1999.

Looks like Anita is suffering from a candle in her humor viscosity. Okay, if you HAVE to be serious, Anita, you might want to read --

http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1998/vol2/gatherer_d.html

Why the `Thought Contagion' Metaphor is Retarding the Progress of Memetics, by Derek Gatherer, School of Biomolecular Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University.

Of course the "Thought Contagion" metaphor is what the Bonker trolls believe in.

So what do you think about the oil information from Jon's correspondent, Anita???

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 18, 1999.

Interesting post Jon....you evidently struck a raw nerve with a thin- skinned sucker.

-- Charles R. (chuck_roast@trans.net), July 18, 1999.

I thought "meme" was a scientologist thing........

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahooo.com), July 18, 1999.

-- doomers@suck.com

I hope you are right that the bug will not bite hard. If so, all doomers will joyfully praise God and be thrilled nothing happens. However, a threat exists. Even you can figure that out.

If you are wrong and have done nothing to prepare, you could be in for great discomfort to say the least. If the oil and electricity go down for a while, folks like you are toast. I'm willing to bet you've never planted a garden, milked a cow, dressed a rabbit, cleaned a fish, sharpened an axe, split wood, or worked physically hard once in the past month. Your faith in the techno god may be drastically shaken soon. God salvation?

-- trafficjam (judgementday@ahead.soon), July 18, 1999.

Acutally trafficjam you couldn't be morw wrong about me. It's funny in a wau how you assume so much about a total stranger. You must be suffering badly from several different types of Paranoia.

I don't much like technology, that my opinion. I do know however that my dislike for it won't even so much as change it's course. I don't need to prepare for anything, I'm already a "good old boy" from way back yonder. I know how to set snares and cook over an open flame. I know which little green things in the forest are edible and which ones I like better then others.

Just because I'm involved in the great Techno-God you refer to doesn't mean I'm a slave. Hate it if you want to but the only thing it is going to accomplish is that you'll go to your grave hating things. Your fears won't bring Y2K to pass. It doesn't work like that.

And as far as you praising God if nothing happens? Bull-frigging- shit and you know it. If y2K turns out to be a non-event then you'll jump on the next doomer bandwagon and change your sandwich boards to read something else.

Your not worried about Y2K your just a worry wart in general. A gloomy little worry wart with no faith in anything, much less people.

Trust me, your the problem. It's your lack of confidence in the human race that is the weak link in the evolutionary chain. Your the squeaky wheel, YOUR the little birdy momma bird kicks out of the nest because you can't hold your own.

Like it or not we are on a path into the future and all your doomy paranoia won't change that a bit. Like I said all it will accomplish is turning you into a bitter, elderly individual with no hope and no faith. When Y2K comes and goes I'll just bet there will be an empty place in your heart where your wishes of SALVATION didn't come true.

Well gee, boo-hoo

I guess your either going to have to join the human race or continue being a rock around our collective necks.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Actually, folks, I could care less about memes. Frankly, don't value the opinions of most folks. I present what I hear. Some is good news, most seems to be bad.

As far as how long it takes to gum up a refinery, going by the information I posted, I would expect it would depend on what type of crude they are running, the weather conditions, and whether the plant was in full production or some kind of partial to full shutdown.

Does ANYONE out there know any petroleum engineers or someone who might know a petroleum engineer? Or a chemical engineer?

We have a lot of people lurking here, let's track down some more information. That is your assignment for next week. (G)

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 18, 1999.

"It's funny in a wau how you assume so much about a total stranger. You must be suffering badly from several different types of Paranoia."

I would hate to make any assumptions about your intelligence, but if you can't see the obvious hypocrisy of that statement, you don't give me much of a choice.

Unfortunately, you continue to disregard your apparent dislike for random assumptions by continuing, "Your not worried about Y2K your just a worry wart in general. A gloomy little worry wart with no faith in anything, much less people."

Boy, I hate it when people make wild assumptions about strangers don't you? You don't have any experience with people from this forum outside of this particular venue. Even with your apparently vast forum experience, you seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of people here have faith in God.

I am continually amazed by your ability to insult people and then dive right into the activity you say you detest. That is hypocrisy. That is why you will never convince anyone of anything on this forum, other than the fact that you are an amazingly blind hypocrite.

-- Stimpy you idiot (doomersucks@sucks.duh), July 18, 1999.

Thanks Jon for sharing your info. I felt that RC did a service in his sharing as well. You've just given his posts that much more credence. The information he has recieved concerning the embedded systems and the inability of the oil industry to handle them all, was also of interest to me. I felt Shakey did his part in alerting us to this same problem within the electric utility industry too. It cannot be ignored that these two industries are relying heavily upon each other for their continued ability to function. This naturally, only increases the odds of society experiencing failures in areas our very lives are dependent upon. For anyone to suggest reading the PR crap that's been coming from so many in authority, is beyond belief. Only a fool would accept these statements without question. Too many are, it's just one of the problems of this looming crisis. Doomers@suck is the perfect example of an asshole in full bloom.

We spent the last week putting up our wind generator as an addition to our solar panels. Thank Gawd.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 18, 1999.

I thought I'd seen everything on this forum but "polly impersonators flaming real pollys and polly impersonators flaming back?"

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL!!!!!!

-- ITHOUGHT (I'D@SEEN.EVERYTHING), July 18, 1999.

I wasn't impersonating Mr. Doomer. Why bother impersonation a moron. He says enough stupid stuff on his own.

-- Not impersonating the moron (doomersucks@sucks.duh), July 18, 1999.

As far as I am aware of.....only when he posts.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 18, 1999.

I'm NOT assuming anything about you people being doomers. This whole stupid forum is filled with Off Topic doomsday bullshit and you guys just suck it up and say "yep, that's Y2K for ya!".

You on the other hand make up assumptions about me to redirect the attention away from yourselves.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

So you're not assuming anything about doomers, huh? Then what were all of those quotes I pulled from your idiotic rants. We're worry warts who would be believing in some other doomsday theory if Y2K wasn't around. Blah, blah, blah. You fill a few paragraphs with nothing but assumptions, and then you say that we're making assumptions about you.

Do you ever think about your posts before you hit the submit button? You continue to prove yourself a hypocrite, and a stupid one at that. You make statements about a group of people based on unfounded assumptions and call them facts. When I see that activity, I know that the person is a liar or an idiot, probably both. When you condemn others for making assumptions about you after writing that garbage, you prove that you're a hypocrite.

-- Stimpy you idiot (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

Stimpy,

You would be a little grouchy, too, if your butt smelled.

-- pull my finger (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

I apologise for all my previous posts. My toilet training hasn't progressed as well as I had hoped and I'm just not my regular self, I guess.

Just reverse everything thing I've said so far.

Be sure to take all your money out of the bank. Borrow on your credit cards if you have to. The banking system will crash and people will suffer because of ignorant morons like me who've ignored the probelm, and you won't have any money except the money you take out of the bank today for yourself and your family. Take your money out now.

Aka Y2kPro, aka, CPR, and I really, really, really like to smell my own butt.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Oh, and to prove what I moron I am, I'm using a real domain, suck.com, as my phoney e-mail address. So now they're getting flooded with a bunch of crappy e-mail thanks to me. Of course, I could care less, because I'm smarter than then anyway. They should thank me for publicising their sucky site.

Yes, I still like to smell my own butt. Thanks for asking.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

the oil and chemical plants I've worked on/in/under have been ontinous processing, not batch processors. They depend on a continous supply of crude from the local tank farm through the supply pumps to the processros (catylitc converters, or mixers, or burners, or whatever) to the next stage (a cooler for example, or a heat exchanger, or a vaporizer, or a condensor, or whatever) then through another group of pumps, more processors, more heat exchangers, then to the final storage (receiver) tank.

All are designed to make money in continuous runs, using process water, process steam (locally generated plant steam from a boiler) and electricity to heat the tracer lines, to cool (or heat up) and most important - to power the pumps and the control valves that move the oil/gas/asphalt/tar and crude from place to place.

Power too is essential for the instrumentation (without which the thing is simply a huge napalm bomb - with open flames near its fuses! - the air supply systems, and the "life safety" equipment - fire fighting water, lights themselves, control stations, emergency rooms, etc.

Looking at just the "cool down" time limit I think is a factor in the impact of recovering power, but not as important as being able to stop all of these processes safely, vent off and burn the explosive gasses and residues, and then exsure nothing is leaking, expanding, draining, venting, or reacting improperly that will cause asecondary fatal explosion or fire.

There are too many variables (initial temperature, type of material, insulation (as-installed, and its current "as-is" condition), thickness of pipe, diameter of pipe, ambient temperature, and local heat sinkssuch as pipe supports and pumps, control valves, isolation valves, etc. Clearly, a smaller diameter pipe will cool much fster than a 10 foot diametr reactor or pressure vessel. However, since the reactor has greater mass than may not be able to safely "remelted" to return to normal operation, and since the pipe will possibly have to be drained back to the tank as part of draining the tank, it's possible (in our assumptions) that we are looking at the wrong part of the problem.

I'll work up the theorectical time for a 6" schedule 80 pipe filled with a tar-thick substance at 150 degrees in open air at 20 degrees assuming no flow, to cool to 60 degrees; but frankly can't tell you if the resulting number will be a critical element in the refineries recovery times.

But at least it will give youi something to thing about.

Obviously, the refineries do shut down, an dthey start up again - they just don't it often, don't do without many tons of wasted product having to get burned off in flares, or dumped for disposal, but in any case, recovery and startup is long, hard, and expensive.

And all the time they are trying to recover, they remain vunerable to subsequent control or process shutdowns.

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csatl.com), July 18, 1999.

Robert:

Thank you very much for additional information.

I see your point about this being a very multifaceted problem. I was focused on the gelling issue by RC's original post.

Power loss, then, is a very significant issue completely separate from control systems/microprocessors. Of course, without electricity to them, it won't much matter if controls are compliant *grin*

Please, anything you can add, or (if possible) any old favors or whatever you might be able to pull in for information would be very significant and greatly appreciated.

I've been trying off and on to fill in the details on this issue. You've helped a lot.

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 18, 1999.