I wouldn't want to live at the place(s) where sewer spills actually accumuate, but if you are unfortunated enough to live in a large city, the odds against being "dumped on" are very, very small.

Otherwise, stay away from fresh sewage, try to keep the flies off your food. If you are worried about not being able to flush your toilet, don't use it. Use a post hole digger, and go poop in your backyared. Pee on the flowers; most types will grow better with the increased fertilization.

What grosses me out is the fact that most cities dump the sewage into the nearest waterway--when everything is functioning NORMALLY!

Three cheers for septic systems and post hole diggers.

-- malcolm drake (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 20, 1999

Answers

raw sewage===outbreak of disease' for starters.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 20, 1999.

EEEE-GADS! You've got along way to go. Are you new to Y2K? If *not*.....you've just won the gene pool "unworthy" award and may pick out any tree of your choice!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 20, 1999.

Will, you claim to be a female, yet you write with all the anger and aggressivness of an adolescent male who hasn't managed to control all the testosterone he finds running around his system.

Sorry I don't know "everything", and I have not yet had my genes tested, so I can't tell you if I am genetically "worthy" of posting on the same internet with someone of your caliber of genes.

I was TRYING to make a point, not to get you to come down off your pedestal in order to hear your attempt at cleverness.

I plead ignorance of what you guy's panic is about, nevertheless, regarding sewage. I personally would rather you go ahead and dump it in your parks, etc, than dump it into our waterways on purpose. If you feel the need to flush your toilet and have the shit run into your bathtub instead of digging a hole and using that, fine. But you won't be a welcome visitor in your more enlightened friends' houses.

-- malcolm drake (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 20, 1999.

Am I missing something here, or is this thread COMPLETELY USELESS TO ALL?

Cholera, dysentery, and myriad other diseases go hand-in-hand (butt- in-butt?) with raw sewage. And if anyone thinks 280 MILLION people are going to go dig holes to "poop in", well they're seriously deluded. (I'm not talking about YOU specifically, Malcolm, so don't get your tits in a twist).

Sewage treatment = GOOD ; Raw sewage in the environment = BAD.

Can we move on now plz?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 20, 1999.

An alternative, Malcolm:

Stores sell 13-gallon scented garbage bags. If you line your toilet with one, and replace when necessary, you'll still enjoy the privacy and comfort of your bathroom. What you do with the waste afterwards is certainly an individual consideration.

I discussed this whole issue of sewers backing up with my utility director LAST year. He stated exactly the problem that you folks have been addressing with the manholes overflowing IF the switch couldn't be set properly. Of course he ALSO stated that if the water were off, it would take considerably longer for the sewage to exceed the capacity of the holding tanks.

Anita

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), June 20, 1999.

An alternative is to buy a compost toilet from Lehman's. If using the backyard or park {!!??), use lime to help things decompose.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), June 20, 1999.

It's not just backed up sewege either, malcolm. It's about the further poisoning of water ways, ground water (wells?) If it backs up in your home and you're standing in 2 ft. of it, will that concern you? You can poop in the yard, but that doesn't mean sewege won't back up in your house. If you're in a low spot and the plant backs up...it's headed your way. Rug Doctor may not be available, get it? This failed test was a "clue". Apply the results to chemicals used to treat your drinking water....might they suffer some little accident? Chemical plants? How many plants do we have in the country? What else can you think of malcolm? Sorry, I'm just running out of patience with those who have been given plenty of information and yet still can't get a clue. Maybe that doesn't apply to you.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 20, 1999.

I have a pet monkey that flies around my room. Just like those little bastards in the Wizard of Oz.

Anita

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), June 20, 1999.

I've heard that Anita. Did you take it with you to the pic-nic?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 20, 1999.

We got a "Luggable Loo" at Fleet & Farm and have been testing it out. It's a plastic bucket with a plastic toilet seat lid. I read HUMANURE (a great book!) and followed (sort of) his simple technique for composting human excretia. The difference is we excrete the liquid (That is, pee) in a separate container, as that can easily be emptied outside where we live, and then the bucket is much easier to deal with. This is how: Put a little sawdust/peat moss/shredded leaves or what-have-you on the bottom of the bucket. Poop. Cover the poop with just 1/2 inch of sawdust or whatever. Repeat till bucket is full. Add to compost pile or store in garbage bag till the day the garbage truck comes again. IT DOES NOT GET SMELLY! Amazing. And very easy. Shivani

-- Shivani Arjuna (S Arjuna@aol.com), June 20, 1999.

Living on an island where the untreated sewage may go out to sea, and damage the coral reefs, makes us perhaps more concerned about sewage spills. Besides suring in that water, we also eat fish which go through juvenille periods on the reef. No reef, far fewer fish. Also, no reef, less protection from storms. And, as mentioned above, there is the high likelihood of disease. Perhaps more so in the tropics. This is a major concern to those of us who have thoroughly thought out the problem.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 20, 1999.

Will, my boy, since you are either unwilling or unable to read my postings completely before making inane replies, I'm going to give up on this thread.

Maybe you could tell me what kind of preparation you have made for y2k. Like how much food, water, fuel, etc. I gather you think y2k is going to be a ten, whatever that is. So are you stockpiling enough food for two weeks, six months, six years?

I'm only stockpiling for a few months, myself, and expect to be sharing a lot of my stuff with any (nice) people who need help in my community. So I've probably only got enough for a few weeks, after sharing. I've got enough PURE water to share with a couple of hundred families, though, and have spread the word that it's available for whoever needs it.

-- malcolm drake (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 21, 1999.

LOL. So THIS is the thread from where the monkey came. I had wondered about that. Oddly enough, only Will Continue thought that was really ME posting....or was it that Will Continue POSTED as me? Hmmm. SYSOPS? Please call house-keeping.

Anita

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), June 21, 1999.

Malcolm obviously hasn't tried to use a post hole digger in Minnesota in January. The ground can freeze 6 to 8 feet deep (depending on the latitude, and the weather). Frozen dirt is really hard. Hit it with an axe and the axe bounces.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 21, 1999.

He's right about the frozen ground. I grew up in Minnesota, right across the Red River from North Dakota. I remember visiting some places that still used outhouses. My father grew up with no indoor plumbing, and remembers using lime and the Sears catalog. I guess you need to encourage your neighbors to dig those holes ahead of time!

-- Mumsie (Lotsakids@home.com), June 21, 1999.

It is important for people to decide now (while supplies are available and before the ground freezes) how they will deal with these issues next winter, if necessary. Check out The Humanure Handbook (J.C. Jenkins). Stock up on tall kitchen trash bags for inserting in your toilet (if you want to continue to use your toilet). Keep on hand an (unfrozen) bag of peat manure or finely shredded leaves. Keep plenty of water, soap and disinfectant on hand.

The April article in Wired about the Montreal ice storm highlights how even life at a regimented shelter eventually became dangerous due to hygiene issues. I think some level of quarantine may be advisable. (I will be severely limiting the number of people who will be allowed inside my house near my elderly parents if the infrastructure collapses.)

Our health departments could give us advice on these subjects, but I doubt that they will. Too many of the solutions that would be appropriate for a health crisis would conflict with current sanitary code.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 21, 1999.

Dig graves and outhouses now while ground soft.

-- h (h@h.h), June 21, 1999.

I suppose if the the lights go out, the Poop will deposited in 200 million shorts anyway! Now *there* is an idea for barter, huh! Fruit of the Looms. Every time you pull into the driveway, they'll need a new pair. Hey how come it's a *pair* of shorts anyway? When I buy three *pair* I still only get three briefs. Shouldn't it be six?

NO wonder the Chinese are so wowwied about the eltwicity going out. Isn't that where shineola is located?

-- spun@lright (mikeymac@uswest.net), June 21, 1999.

Hey there, spun@lright! Got washboards? Good ta see ya ;^)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 21, 1999.

Good morning my fellow Cascadians!!

Had a great time at lunch yesterday. I was relating my reasoning for the time warp, (I was back a little late for dinner, but I caught up with them anyway, so no biggie) and I realized that I could not remember one single face from the resturant, in the hours we spent together. On the way home, I felt a little red faced about talking my fool head off.

Washboards, now there's another great idea. Thanks! That'll free up those rocks for throwin' {8^0`

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), June 21, 1999.

Well, I mean faces *other* than yours of course, which by the way have a certain glow to them.

Looking forward to our next *Rendezvous*!!!!Yaaahooo!!!!!

Oh yea, I guess that should read "restaurant"; those French, what a beautiful language!

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), June 21, 1999.

Heeheeehee. BTW, Yourdynamites, Michael here is the ultimate creative fix-it make-it draw-it build-it think-it. We're talking the man to have in your bug-out fortress! And he knows pipes, and sewers, yes! That's gonna be a verrrrry useful skill-set, whoa! If we had the means to create the Yourdon Land community settlement, it'd definitely have to have the Yourdynamite Patent complex up and running, and a thriving Research & Development unit for Solutions and Inventions.

To those that cannot imagine why/how overflowing raw sewage can be a problem, uh, that's left us speechless. Staggers the braincells, stumps the fingertips.

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 21, 1999.

It's possible to live with sewage flowing openly in the streets. That was the situation for centuries in most cities in Europe, including Britain. There are ancillary costs, of course, in increased child mortality and decreased life expectancy. Immune systems are challenged, but some are able to cope.

Given any choice, I'd just as soon not have to live in that environment.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 21, 1999.

Gee, sorry malcolm you don't like me. I've been reading YOUR posts for some time now. You're dumb as hell. You have displayed an obvious lack of knowledge about the sewer systems, among other things. This thread was posted *minus* ANY careful thought. If you are an example of a GI....I'll eat my hat. Keep working on it though, you may come around....or not.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 22, 1999.