After months of research and use, I have concluded that Video CDs are too old of a technology. With that in mind, I say goodbye to this confusing coaster technology. Forget Asian imports because they always seem to cut out at least one minute from an American movie. I bought the Titanic on Video CD from www.videocds.com and almost TEN MINUTES WERE CUT FROM IT. The Malaysian Video CD of Braveheart is cut by seven minutes. And don't get me started on nudity and language. Singapore(my friends got pirated versions, hence my thinking they were uncut) bans films or cuts them severely. Hong Kong also does this, according to my friend(one who bought from Singapore) the Showgirls loses a lot of footage in Hong Kong. Granted I want to watch movies on my old laptop but to endure censorship that is very visible. NO WAY. I am an American citizen who knows violence in movies ain't the cause of violence in people. I want to see my movies uncut and exactly the way they were in a theater. I am heading full steam into a Region One DVD player, and giving up on this well, shitty product. DVD is way better resolution 720 x 480 with DTS Sound, the movies are 99.9% widescreen, uncut, 70% of them have bonus features up the wazoo. I mean the Negotiator Region One DVD has a one hour documentary on real negotiators. The You've Got Mail has comparisons with the films it was based on. Aliens DVD has more bonus features than the Video CD(about five or six). Can you have these on a Video CD? HELL NO!!! Not unless you want to use a what is that stupid name, oh yeah DVCD. Want MPEG2 VCDs go get a SVCD or CVCD. Five versions exist and you have to pick the right one otherwise you can't watch the damn movie? Forget that, DVD is one version and can be used on any player. See all you VCD nerds later. I am getting away from this crap.

-- The Lone Ranger (rutger_s@hotmail.com), June 19, 1999

Answers

I guess my reply to this would be simple----

DVD is a great format. But I believe 9/10 people that are into VCD like it because it is inexpensive, is good quality (compared to DVD, not nearly as good) and is createable by everyone. Creation of DVD is practically unheard of, and we wont see $1 DVD blanks (like we see $1 CD blanks) probably in 5-10 years. Also, with a good connection to the internet such as cable and dsl, you could download a whole movie in hours, which is what ALOT of people on the net are doing. Expect to pay at least 5-10 thousand dollars and upwards for a DVD burner, then another few thousand for DVD authoring software, on top of Windows NT operating system (currently you can only author DVD on the Windows NT platform), and blanks at around $40----not exactly an economical choice. Most of the people that watch videos want to be able to record their own stuff, which DVD does not at the moment provide without wearing a hole in your bank account. Another reason why VCD is so poplular is the pirate market. Theater movies come out just days after a movie is released in a theatre and a good quality screener comes out months later. It takes a long time for a new movie in the theatres to come out on DVD. VCD is also universal. You can play them back on DVD players, VCD players, playstations/saturns (with the right hardware), cdi machines, and PC's/Macs.

I am in no way knocking down DVD. It is a great format. But the price and non-econimic recordability is unnattractive to those who want to create as well as view. Concerning all the formats of VCD. If there were no competing formats, there would be no selection. Imagine if Apple macintosh went out of buisness....the PC would have no competition. Meaning, if there is competition, there would always be a need to make something better to compete. All the formats of VCD such as CVD and SVCD (which use mpeg-2) are new technologies that compliment VCD.

The only thing VCD really falls short on is length. It sux having a movie on 2 discs but hopefully DVCD will save the day. DVCD (not to be confused with SVCD) has the same resolution and bitrate as VCD, but double the capacity (hence DVCD, or Double VCD). A friend of mine has Bug's life which fits on one disc. Creation of DVCD is not known to Americans as of yet, but when it is finally availible, the VCD scene will never be the same.....

Here's hoping someone out there will release DVCD creation tools to bring the mighty VCD format to a new level. Whole movies on on CD-R disc.......I can't wait

Long live VCD

-- MrVCD (mrvcd@juno.com), June 19, 1999.

Go to this site that explaint why DVD is OVERKILL as a digital corporate communications medium.

-- vman (v_i_d_e_o@hotmail.com), June 19, 1999.

The Lone Ranger, I think you are confusing yourself with the technology and about SVCD, DVCD.

Once the DVCD is accepted by the Asian Market, I sure you will find the Orginal Video CD in this format.

VCD is still be here as not everybody has a DVD player as well as most of computer user does not have DVD-ROM.

Beside that Picture Quality of Video CD with NTSC and PAL TV is almost the same as DVD unless you have HDTV

-- Rycado (rycardo@excite.com), June 19, 1999.

VCDs do not have the same resolution as DVDs. VCDs are less and you can see that when using a dual laser DVD player. Granted they look good almost LaserDisc Quality but DVD's 780x480 resolution and the option of sound choices(Stereo, Surround, 5.1, etc.) make this format the future for Americans and me I am an American. I do not care about CVCD, SCVCD, or DVCD...why? Because in Thailand they do not care either and I have to get my movies from there in order to get uncut films, the only problem is I have to wait for a relative to bring them to me. Instead of just waiting, I can get a DVD player with nice extras and some great movies. Also here in the US DVDs can be rented a hell of a lot more than Video CD. I like this technology but truth be told, it is old and Asia is fighting the future with it. Companies in the US are already ordering DVD-RAM and DVD-RW drives for back up. These media can hold up to 5.2 gigs or 6 gigs. Compare that to a CD- RW holding 780 MB at the most. But my main reason for dumping Video CD is censorship. After finding out all the original copyrighted movies I had were in some way altered, it made me mad. I said before that I want my movies truly uncut. With DVD that happens since it is supported by America. Even better, I can finally see the alternate footage, endings, gag reels, behind the scenes, directory commentaries, and whatever else they can come up with on DVD. Now someone show me a Video CD that has an animated menu, Chapter selections with previews of the scene, and at least one extra feature like a theatrical trailer on only the discs it came with(i.e. the movie is two discs so stick to two discs). Anyone who can point me to a Video CD with ALL of the above?

-- The Lone Ranger (rutger_s@hotmail.com), June 19, 1999.

VCD 2.0 has almost as many features as DVD. It doesn't have DTS/AC-3, and multiple subtitles/audio tracks/angles, but you can have interactive menus, chapter selection, and with a cdi and pc, you can have clickable onscreen buttons. I am happy to say that I have seen the best VCD's made that approach even Laserdisc quality! That's just my opinion though, since this is cerntainly not the case with every VCD, but with some that I have seen.

Those VCD features are part of the VCD 2.0 standard. I bet most people didn't know you can skip scenes, have menus, slide shows, cd audio, still shots on VCD. Why? Because not too many VCD's had this feature when a movie was made into VCD either professionally or pirated. I personally created my own VCD's with these features, which proves it is possible.

The main reason VCD is around is it's cheap, and recordable (or rerecordable if you put it on cdrw, which even some home dvd players can read, as well as dvd rom drives and newer cd rom drivez). The success of any consumer format be it audio or video is recordability (or even rerecordability). Recordability is probably the number one concern/desire with consumers because of the need to archive video/audio for persnal use. Imagine if DVD were to never come out with a recordable type. Sure, VHS sux compared to DVD's top quality resolution, audio, and features, but the tape will always be around since it is cheap and recordable. Same case With VCD. You can pick up a CD-R blank for $1 or sometimes less when bought in bulk (it's advantageous to buy in bulk anyways). In the case of quality, DVD's picture quality cannot be fully appreciated until it is viewed on say, an HDTV set.....which 99% of the people out there dont have.

DVCD as I said before, should come to the resuce as far as VCD's length is concerned. Imagine VCD titles on one disc. That will surely give DVD a run for it's money. VCD has so much more potential for a format it's age. Imagine if all the VCD releases were fully interactive with menus, still shots, chapter selection, clickable buttons, cd audio, etc. No matter what you throw at it, be it DVD or whatever, VCD is still going strong. Unless of course we start seeing DVD blanks and recordable media being as cheap as VCD.....

Long Live VCD

-- MrVCD (mrvcd@juno.com), June 19, 1999.

To Lone Ranger,

Sorry that you find VCDs too dang confusing, actually you seem to really confuse yourself. Compared to regional coding and Anamorphic widescreen features (which I still do not quite fully understand, even after accessing a website which explains it graphically), interactive menus, multiple language subtitles, DIVX etc. etc. on DVD. VCD is so simple, here in SEA, which has far more illiterate people than USA, the common folk can easily understand, use and enjoy the format , 99% of the time you just pop in the VCD and press play.

Let's look at the VCD format

VCD<=>DVCD, ie. simply pop either one into a dedicated VCD player and it will work, so far so good?

SVCD and CVCD, only SVCD is slated as the next generation VCD format, CVCD has evolved to be SVCD, simple?, therefore you only need to be familiar with VCD players and maybe in the near future SVCD players, (I told you it was simple).

As for uncensored movies and variety, can you get Star Wars Trilogy SE or original 1977 version on DVD? What about Planet of The Apes? or if violence and gore is your cup of tea, do you have the obscure but sickening "Faces of Death" series of documentaries on DVD? Wow !!! real live footage of shootings, hangings, animals eating humans, etc. the entire works. Have you watched Tarzan, Austin Powers 2, Notting Hill, The 13th Floor etc. yet? all in the comfort of your own home? One need not have to pay $500.00 to scalpers or be in the crazy queue for Star Wars TPM just to watch it 2 days after its official release in the US ie. (May 22?) and for the ultimate Star Wars fix I was still able to catch the movie at the cinema without insane crowds after all the hype had died down (Now, why would I want DVD?). Well anybody would be able to do and enjoy all these and more, if they bypassed DVDs and went straight for VCDs as a progression from Laser Discs. IMHO, I think that your source for VCDs plain sucks, getting you all the censored and cut movies, you really should change sources. DVDs are great but with Divx and regional coding, it appears to be a still born format with the rest of the world.

As for the one hour Negotiator documentary on DVD and all other special features like behind the scenes takes etc. etc. all these can easily be transferred to VCDs, *that is, if anybody wants them at all in the first place,* as you should know by now, when DVDs are EVENTUALLY released all interest and hype surrounding that movie would have died down and because of the wide time lags in release schedules with VCDs may even be completely forgotten, (The Negotiator?... Huh?........Oh yes I remember that one...It was a loooong time ago.....)) as VCD owners are too busy chasing the next big time box office movies.

Stick around this VCD forum, don't go away, and you just may be reconverted to (S)VCDS :-).

Cheers

Note - I do not in anyway, condone or encourage the viewing of pirated VCDs, but I am merely expressing my views on why VCDs are so popular in other parts of the world. I believe that if there is a need for anything there would always be someone to fulfill that need.

-- Sethsolo (Sethsolo@hotmail.com), June 20, 1999.

The Lone Ranger does have a point but Video CDs are cheap and can be made. I too have found problems with Video CDs being edited. After all to lose more than two minutes of a film on Video CD, when us Americans can have the uncut versions with DVD and VHS. Another problem is compatability. My store has been swamped with (US) brocheres for DVD players. The newer models are phasing out VCD compatablity. One unit we loved was a Mini-Stero with DVD-Audio/Video DVD built in(like an Asian Aiwa System) made by Panasonic. This unit DID NOT HAVE VCD COMPATABILITY. As a result of this news plus notices of Warner Bros.'s phase out. My store has begun ordering more Region- Less DVD players, even more shocking was the news that the International Braveheart(the one Lone Ranger loves so much) DVD would have the restored footage with a parental lock-out feature. Now with the news in America of kids killing each other, a parental lock-out feature(only on DVD by the way) would be much better than editing the film. Asian countries could do this very easily and protect the citizens. But as of right now this forum strongly believes in Video CD and you should give it a chance and hey if you really want uncut films buy pirate movies from Thailand.

Note- Piracy is illegal and can result in jailtime. I purchase Pirates solely for my own use and do not distribute them. Please follow the legislation provided by your country.

-- Will Shakes (soldier0081@hotmail.com), June 21, 1999.

DVD is great and will never be toppled, the special edition of MIB includes 5 full length audio tracks , visual commentaries , 5.1 in 3 languages , etc. etc. And VCD can't even have a decent picture quality. If you compare the dvd to vcd of toy story 2 there is a weorld of difference which is easily seen and heard unless you have completely crap DVD , TV and 5.1 System !

-- Tom Axworthy (tomaxworthy@hotmail.com), January 16, 2001.