Picture a moderate slope with a watertable at say 20 foot below the surface.The slope is cut by a 100ft ravine extending up the hillside.

How far away from the ravine could one dig a well ?

Is this a stupid question or can one make a guess.Soil is gritty sand overlying volcanic deposits.

The reason for asking is that we are moving to a disused plantation which operated steam driven boilers & machinery in 1878.There are no old site maps at all.The plantation dates back to late 1600's (I am talking early here) so logically there must have been good water nearby.

The steam boiler,chimney etc are close to the ravine.Just by the Boiler is a stone built water tank holding about 20.000 galls.No obvious inlet.Many other plantations are also at this contour height & some have wells marked.

Some 100 yards away from the ravine up against an old terrace wall is a vertical pipe(internal diameter approx 80cms) just sticking up.Approx 15 ft further along the wall is a round "well like" wall of dressed stone going into the ground.(It is blocked up with vegetation & broken branches)We didn't investigate because of the danger from lurking centipedes.

Any thoughts about the vertical metal pipe.Could it be part of a pump ?Could the well be sited nearby ? Hypothesis welcomed.

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 07, 1999

Answers

Chris, for what it is worth, I too recently moved into a rural property, though not nearly as mysterious as yours apparently is. I can't answer any of your questions directly, but I would like to offer up some advice: Get yourself a heavy duty, industrial type weed-eater, and start uncovering. It is amazing how much you can learn once you can see what you are looking at! In my case, I was pleased to discover 11 raised garden beds that had apparently been unattended for years, each filled with rich soil!!

Good luck!

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), June 07, 1999.

I suspect you have found the "old well" itself - be very careful excavating and clearing ground cover near that site.

You have to do it of course, or you'll never get water, but be much more careful of collapsing well sides (and collapsing "covers") that could dump you into a long fall - from which you need fire dept recovery. centipedes/snakes/spiders/rats/mice or smaller concerns than falls and - NEVER let your kids get near the well until you have a "new" locked cover in place over it. - several children have dies in falls, and have gotten "jammed" head-first/feet first after "explorign wells" in their yards.

Do it ONLY with another adult's supervision (make sense - never put yourself without another person who can drive/call ambulance/fire dept or pull you out (has to be big enough to man-handle out of trouble!). Look for a cover" plate or board (possible rotten) that covers the well "house" or the well itself.

The well (if water table is that close) should be start at and end at the same relative elev as at the adjacent sites. Look for springs and seepage from the ravine to find true water table. The well probably goes 10-25 feet deepre than the water table - if they could dig that much deeper, or if they enlarged the well during dry seasons. Fill the existing "water tank" - if leakage is minimal, use it - the water inside will NOT be fresh or sanitary though.

The "pipe"? Don't know - could be the 1920's or 30's replacement to the orignal hand-drawn well bucket. If that could be so, get your local neighbor to look at it (good way to make aquaintances!) and get his advcie on who to get to "check it out". There should be several local well-drillers - he'll likely recommend one whose worthwhile.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 07, 1999.

P.S. No problem killing snakes with a heavy duty weed-eater, either! Just another "weed" as it were....

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), June 07, 1999.

Chris; Try something everyone else hasn't mentioned, get a ball of twine and a container with wheel weights in it. Drop it in the vertical tube to first see just how deep it goes and then if it has water or it's an airshaft for an underground mine or cave ??? Also go to the local tax office to look up the records of the property after you have a name then search the newspaper for articles of the place. It might give you info you need.

Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), June 08, 1999.

Jack,

I hadn't thought of our property as mysterious but that is just what it is !It is on the island of St Kitts in the Caribbee and comprises of about 2 acres.These two acres were originally the "Yard" of a sugar plantation.The site is bisected by a cane track.On one side is the Ravine & the remnants of the steam driven sugar processing buildings.ie the water tank,machinery platform,100ft chimney with attached lime kiln,double boiler.The water tank has a date of 1878.

On the other side of the track are remnants of walls & another molasses tank. We spent three months clearing the site last year.We did it by hand using pruners,chainsaw & machete only.It had been abandoned since 1920 but there was a small field supervisor's house there which was occupied until 25 years ago.Unfortunately we couldn't find anyone who could remember where the chap got his water from.

Robert, Being a small island the rescue services are not plentiful.Luckily no children to worry about.We certainly are very safety conscious as have no wish to be flown off to Miami for surgery.No chance of a wooden cover board still existing as there are termites.I suspect we may have to get in a well driller from off-island.Most of the existing system goes back a long way in time & the population has been stable most of this century.

No snakes,just the centipedes.They can give you a bite that makes your hand/leg/foot swell up to football size.Mike hacked his way up the Ravine but it a jungle.The whole place steamed in the heat.What do you say...I send him back up there !!!!!

Furie, No records of mining activity.Our best chance of tracking down info is via sale inventories.Upto 1870,the plantation was owned by absentee Englishmen.The Archives are still cataloguing deeds etc & no luck so far.Newspapers don't last long out in the Yropics.Nice try though !

We had thought of buying a metal detector & seeing whether we could trace any metal pipes and also finding out whether there are any water diviners on Island.

In the meantime,the nearest water is 1/2 mile away up the mountain & is a sugar cane irrigation pipe & cattle trough.

St Kitts is a brilliant place.You never know what you are going to find.We are hoping to discover the Rum cellar which was mentioned as containing a 1000gals of rum in 1808.No luck so far.

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 08, 1999.

So would I....what happens to rum aged for 190 years?

And, if you dare drink it, do you care what it tastes like?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 08, 1999.

Chris- try dowsing for what you want to know. Can make dowsing rods easily with welding rod - bend two pieces and voila- instant dowsing rods. Can find water, pipes, underground streams, electric lines underground- just about anything that way- works great- try it. We have a property with spring lines running beneath- always dowse for the lines prior to digging holes....

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), June 08, 1999.

Anita, Thought about dowsing & got some books out of the library.They all emphasised you need a clear mind..something I haven't got this year for some reason.Just static & somewhat shaky hands.It must be senile decay setting in or all that imported Belgium food.

Got any tips about it,seriously though ?

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 08, 1999.

Chris, the American Society of Dowsers website may provide you with some helpful info. Here's the url: http://www.newhampshire.com/dowsers.org

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), June 08, 1999.

Hi, Chris,

Although anything is possible, it is unlikely that you have a twenty foot deep water table near to a hundred foot deep ravine. Most likely the water table near the ravine will not be much higher than the bottom of the ravine.

I know I'll get a lot of wrath for this, but dowsing is basically superstition. Here's a test: ask a dowser to guarantee that he can tell you how much water there is and at what depth. Lots of the dowsers around here (Oregon) will do this. Unfortunately, they will only refund their charges. I have offered to pay them double the cost of drilling the well if they are correct in their dowsing, if they will pay for the well if they are wrong. So far, no takers. Even from the ones who claim to be 100% accurate.

I was arguing scientific methods vs. dowsing with an old timer friend of mine. He said, Malcolm, I don't give a damn about all your scientific facts. If a dowser could tell you where there was a good water supply, he'd be a damn millionaire.

Talk to a local well driller; they generally have enough experience to at least give you and educated guess.

Good luck!

-- malcolm drake (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 08, 1999.

I'm a believer in "anything is possible"..particularly in "energy waves".(I'm being real cagey here.)So I'm not going to write off dowsing completely.

I must admit I had thought in my simplistic way that if a spring line was intersected by a ravine then this would cause a major distortion. However,St Kitts is volcanic with pyroclastic flows so the underlying geology must have a pronounced effect..possibly in a very localised way.

Thanks everyone for the advice.I'll keep you posted if & when I can .

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 09, 1999.

Chris- yep- a clear mind is good. I have never tried to determine depth to water with dowsing- will someday. But basically it's a matter of going out there and trying it- I know that I just couldn't believe it when I saw someone dowse for the first time- they lent me their rods and voila- I was now a believer. It's a matter of being clear as to what you're asking for information on. I think it's a combination of allowing your unconscious mind to sort a buch of info that's out there plus energy fields that you can pick up with the rods. In NH the other day, a women dowsed for a lost toddler with rods and a map- the kid was found where she said he'd be- a lot of believers came out of that episode! She's native American by the way.

So- the best i can suggest is put together rods you like- I like metal ones- some like plastic or "tree pieces"- and try it. Start with something simple such as a pipe or electric underground cable first to get the hang of it. Or an underground spring- those are easy......

keep in touch-

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), June 09, 1999.