does anyone have any ideas? any cars they want to just give me?

(it was worth a shot)

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Answers

I don't know how to get the perfect car, but if anyone is giving them away I'd like one of those new Beetles, please.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I have the answers you seek regarding car leasing. All together my mother and I have leased approximately 10 cars in the past several years. I don't think I'll ever buy another car because leasing is such a great option! Two of the biggest benefits of leasing: pretty much everything is covered under warranty, and you get to pick out a brand new car every two years! If you would like specific information about the leasing process drop me an e-mail and I will be happy to answer any questions.

(This poster is not affiliated with any automobile manufacturer, financial institution, or leasing company -- Promise.)

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Saturn of Austin seems to be boasting a pretty good deal. Have you seen those billboards around town? I think you can lease a new 1999 Saturn for about $240 a month for 36 months. Not too shabby as Saturns ROCK! My boyfriend has a car from hell as well. The gas tank thingy and flat tires. And as a compliment to it all, battery acid was spilled in the back seat. this wasn't discovered until he went skateboarding and threw his work close onto the back seat after changing. When I went to get them out the next week on laundry day, the shirt and khakis were half eaten. Moths? In the car? That's fucked up, I thought. And then I smelled the putrid smell and saw the offending battery on the floorboard. Bleck.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I'm with Katee on this. Get a Saturn, whether you buy or lease. I have a 1996 Saturn four-door and it's not the coolest-looking car in the universe, but it runs well, causes few problems, and holds a surprising number of people. The only problem is that I am not very enamored with the local Saturn dealership. According to my dad, the one in the New Orleans area offered far superior customer service and was open on Saturdays. Other Saturn-owning friends spin marvelous stories about their wonderful dealerships, making me insanely jealous. Oh... the other problem is that tall men complain about the lack of leg room, but if you turn the radio up you won't have to hear them.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Oh yes, I'm a tall(obscenely so) man, and I turn up the stereo in my wife's Saturn when I am driving to drown out my own bitching. Thank God for cruise control on long trips or my knees would lock up in a right angle. They really are a bit overpriced, but for the nonconfrontationist in your life the set price scheme might make it worth it.

Leasing is not a bad option if you don't plan on actually putting any excess mileage on the vehicle. Then it is a bitter end with a nice balloon payment surprise.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I was told that Texas has the lowest car leasing ratio in the United States because it is the only state that still taxes consumer car leases. This tax can range from $250 - $1,500 per year in addition to the monthly lease rate. The Texas legislature is considering dropping the consumer car lease tax while still maintaining the business lease tax. If you can hold out until November, you might be able to save some cash.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Why do you say you want to lease a car instead of wanting to buy one? It's that old rent vs. own dilema. In the long run, most people would probably be ahead financially by buying a car outright rather than by leasing... but if you drive low miles and like to have a new car every two or three years I guess leasing might make sense.

I usually buy new cars and drive them forever and ever... and ever. That means that after two or three years I have no loan payments and it's like driving a free car. On the other hand, it means I spend years driving older and older cars with higher and higher odometer readings. A year ago I decided that my 89 Chevy Nova was wearing out but I didn't want to spend the money for a new car so I picked up a 91 Honda Civic (only $3k from a co-worker). What I really want is a new Subaru Forrester but I just can't face spending in the neighborhood of $25k for a car... My daughter will be a high school senior this fall so I can see college tuition bills coming real soon now... and my youngest will start high school in the fall so I can look ahead four years to when I will be faced with a year with two kids in college.

Figure out how many miles you drive a year. Leasing would never work for me because I drive far too many miles. (If you lease, you have to pay for every mile over a certain figure.) If you don't drive very many miles then leasing may work out for you. (But remember, when the lease is up, if you want the car you have to buy it... and if you don't want to keep it, you have to start over with a new lease.)

First find the kind of car you want. Research it. Check out Consumer Reports magazine. Also check it out online. Go to http://www.edmunds.com/ and to http://carpoint.msn.com/ and read reviews, compare features with similar cars, compare prices, etc.... and get an idea how much negotiating room a dealer might have for a given car. (I think that carpoint has a feature where if you pick the car you want they will arrange for a dealer to give a very low price quote.) Once you know what you want, shop around. Go to more than one dealer. (Now obviously some of this advice doesn't apply to Saturn.) Test drive the car. Not a three minute around the block drive. Take it out for at least half an hour. Drive the kind of driving you expect to be doing. How does it handle? Is it comfortable? Can you see clearly all around? Etc. Do Not answer questions about having a trade in or discuss financing or leasing. First get a price. It should be below the sticker price. How much? Depends on the car. There is a higher markup to play with on bigger cars. If it is a really hot popular model the dealer may not want to cut below list price at all or may even tack on extra. (In that case, I would find a different car.) Don't leap at the first price. Check out another dealer. Okay, got a good price, now you can discuss trading in your old heap and financing and lease vs. purchase. You do not want to pay extra for rustproofing (modern cars don't need it) or upholstery treatment (they spray the seats with $1.98 worth of ScotchGuard and charge you two or three hundred for it), nor is it worth while buying a special extra extended warranty... They can make more profit off that kind of add-on than off the car itself, which is one of the reasons you want to get a firm price quote up front, before they find out that you are not a sucker.

Oh, and if they start to patronize you (or start with heavy pressure) just say good-bye and head for the next dealer...

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

oh my gosh, i have so many educated readers!

thanks guys, for all of your advice....especially that leasing tax law. how good to know.

this makes me so excited about looking, too.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I agree with the other pro-Saturn posters. I have a Saturn and can't say enough good things about my car. Living in Massachusetts with all the crazy drivers has made me very happy to have the plastic door panels which pop out if someone hits them. And at least in MA, a Saturn is one of the cheapest cars to insure (the only cheaper was a Honda civic when I got mine in 1997). The dealer told me this was due to the high amount of safety features. The safety stuff was actually a big reason I wanted a Saturn. After being in a horriffic car accident a few years ago, safety is very important to me.

Good luck car hunting!

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Hey there.

A couple things. First, your 45 minutes of a one person show is already written for you. It's your car dialogue.

Uh as for new car and such: I had an 89 Jeep Cherokee up until this year. I had it for 4 years and finally had to give it up. I mean, I could have fixed the cracked windshield and the power windows that didn't want to go up in the rain or down in the hot weather, but it was all too much after a time.

I leased a 1999 Tahoe because I couldn't afford to buy it. And I needed to huge amount of room Tahoes have because I have a child and a dog. Sure, I could have gotten a station wagon, but, c'mon.. Besides, I couldn't afford to even lease the Suburban.

I recommend buying whenever possible. And I would recommend buying these 'pre-owned' cars. I got a 96 Camry last year for $15,000, with only 16,000 miles on it. New ones were going for $25,000. The pre-owned are the cars that people leased for 2 or 3 years and turned in, so you know they're in good condition or else the leasee would have been hit with a massive bill.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I got a free car from my parents so I haven't really been through the whole lease/buy dillema (before you start calling me spoiled, realize it's an '86 Volvo). But my girlfriend just bought a new car. She says if you you're going to buy a new car, find out the invoice price on the web and don't settle for anything more than a few hundred over invoice. Dealers can actually sell you the car for at or below invoice and still make money. Mention 'holdback' and watch their face fall to the ground. Holdback is a sum of money the dealer gets just for having the car on the lot so he can still make money by selling the car at invoice. But I guess most people don't know about this. I really think Honda Accord is the most sensible car to buy because even though it's a bit more expensive, it is incredibly well made, reliable and relatively inexpensive to fix.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

I bought a late-model used car a couple years ago, and that's normally what I'd recommend, but you've had SO much pain and misery from this piece of junk that I think you should just go get yourself a new car, if you can afford it. Lease or buy, either way, just get yourself something that won't play Headache Roulette with you.

So far as specific models go, I'd say you really can't go wrong with a Toyota Corolla. They're highly reliable, they're inexpensive, the parts are easy to get, they're put together in such a way that repairs are cheap, and even though my car is now getting old (it's a 1992 Corolla) I've never had even CLOSE to the traumas you've had with that Mazda. You don't live in Minnesota, so the "starts even after sitting outside in -40 degree weather for a week" feature is probably less of a consideration for you, but still, they're damn good cars.

Toyota _dealers_, on the other hand, have a reputation for being total assholes. That's one of the perks of Saturns -- no bargaining. The sticker price is the price. (I bought my car at a lovely little Mom-and-Pop used car lot in my neighborhood. If you lived in Minneapolis, I'd tell you to go there, but it's a bit of a trek from Austin and probably not worth it.)

Anyway. The real reason I decided to post is that I wanted to encourage you, whatever you get in the way of a _new_ car, to do something really, really mean to your _old_ car. I mean, I suppose you could trade it in for parts when you buy the new car and get some money, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be tempted to call around local junkyards and find out if they'll squash the car and let you watch. I mean, that car _hates_ you. It's been abusing you for years. The fact that it's from 1993 is no excuse -- my car is from 1992 and it has never done to me those things your car does to you. And for crying out loud, the horn went off whenever it got _cold_? Now MAYBE I missed something and you're actually from Austin, Minnesota, but if you're in Texas, it doesn't get cold enough to give your car any sort of excuse. Here you've been doing your best for it -- buying it new tires, new parts, trying to wash off gum left behind by vandals -- and is it appreciative? No, it breaks AGAIN. Enough is enough. Kill it.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Yeah that Texas lease tax is a butt. However, your dealer will be able to help you with that and weigh your options. Do not be afraid to get a new car if you need one! You can do it! I know grown-up things are horrible and scary: buying cars, houses, insurance, etc. But you can do it - just take someone with you to the dealership who's done it before. The jackals are so much less likely to attack when you have a bodyguard.

I have to say, that story about you driving around in your honking car, banging on the steering wheel...that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. (Except maybe the story about my grandmother at the airport.)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/2958

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

To elaborate on my earlier remarks and Stung's comment about holdbacks...

A holdback is an allowance manufacturer gives dealer to cover the costs (financing, etc.) of having a car on the lot... essentially supposed to cover the first three months of holding the car. The amount varies from company to company, but Toyota is typical at 2% of invoice. So, for example, a Toyota Corolla VE 4 door sedan with 5 speed standard has a manufacturer's suggested retail price (according to Edmund's) of $12,258. There's a $420 destination charge so that means that the sticker would say 12,258 plus 420 equals $12,678. But the invoice price for that car is $11,172. Now if the car had been unloaded from a truck yesterday, that means the dealer sold it to you for the sticker price he would make thirteen hundred dollars... or he could have a super sale -- this weekend only -- one hundred dollars over factory invoice -- and still make almost three and a quarter profit. (And much more once he sells you rustproofing and paint protection and extended warranty and...) Of course the car has been sitting on his lot for four or five months he's already had the holdback eaten up by his carrying costs. What this does mean, however, is that you should expect to pay less than list price. Don't get too greedy, everyone has to make a living, but don't let them try to sell you at sticker price... and don't let them stick you with those add-ons.

That 89 Chevy Nova I mentioned owning... I bought it to replace an 88 Nova that had been totalled (that's what happens when really big cars smash into little cars) in a collision. I checked with four dealers (three of them by telephone) and said I wanted a four door five speed Nova hatchback sedan and I would buy a car that day from whoever quoted me the absolute lowest price. I bought it from the place that went $100 under everyone else. Of course they were annoyed that I didn't finance it there because they make a profit on that (I'd already lined up financing from my credit union... that's another good idea... unless you have a lot of cash around) and because I wouldn't buy an extended warranty... I think they had cut their price way down because they had expected to make it back through the add-ons.

As for disposing of your old car... smashing it might provide some satisfaction but then you would still have to dispose of the pieces... You should try to trade it in... but only after getting a firm price... otherwise they will confuse you by quoting prices in terms of your car plus cash. Last year, since I bought my Civic in a private sale I donated my old car to the Kidney Foundation. They (and a number of other charities) will accept almost any kind of car as a donation. They get to sell it for the money; you get a tax deduction. (That, of course, is only useful if you itemize...)

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

My first car was an '82 Ford Escort that I got in 1991 and kept until last winter. I wound up giving it to a friend who was still living in Nebraska and wanted a beater car, but I was really hoping to take it out to the Mojave Desert and impale it on a gigantic spike. I felt like it deserved a good death since it had served me for such a long time. The spike thing was obviously not feasible, none of the local demolition derbys had a lightweight class, and I would get arrested for cremating it or dumping it in a lake.

I bought a Toyota Tacoma in January and love it. The freaky staredown between the buyer and salesman after the test drive and before talking numbers always makes me want to laugh. I sat there and stared at the guy for 15 minutes before he said anything.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

Screw the kidney foundation. I donated a car to them and still had it in my driveway five months after sending them the title. If I ever need a kidney, I hope they don't wait that long before removing it from the cadaver.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 1999

In 1997 I bought a '94 Saturn from a dealer. It has lots of nice features--A/C, cruise control, power windows/locks, automatic transmission--but cost about $7K less than a similar new Saturn. It has over 100,000 miles on it now but has been extremely reliable. I have been very satisfied with it.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

Brad, things worked well for me with the Kidney Foundation... I phoned their 800 number, they sent me some paperwork which I filled out and returned, then I got a phone call to arrange for picking up the car... the guy asked if it was in running condition (yes) and how to find my house... I took off the plates and put the keys in the ashtray and sometime that day they came by and took it away... (I did have to call their 800 number and ask for a receipt for tax purposes but must honestly admit that they may well have sent one and we just lost it in the blizzard of paperwork that seems to gather on our desks.)

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

Wait Pamie!! Here's another reason to love Saturn (I discovered this while watching TV last night): the leasing price is as low as $136 (!!!) a month for 36 months. That rocks! I have a cool Honda Civic that I love and will officially own next summer (and I'm only 25--big accomplishment) but if I was in need of a car I would pick the Saturn leasing deal.

Viva la Saturn!!!

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

I must continue the Saturn love fest. We have a '94 Saturn four door with 60K miles on it, and it runs like a dream. We have never had any problems with it, particularly in starting on snowy mornings (which I know is not a concern for Pamie, but it might be for others!)

The only flaw I know of with Saturns is that they can have a tendency to overheat. If it's summer, and I'm sitting in traffic for more than a few minutes, I watch the temp gauge rise. A friend with a Saturn (same year) reports the same thing. But that could just be older Saturns.

On the buy vs. lease thing, I lean towards the buy. The reason is, I tend to drive cars until they die. I'm not the "buy a new car every 2 years" type of person (not that there's anything wrong with that - just not my style). So I don't get the point of paying all that money and then at the end of it having nothing to show for it. Of course, when you buy you pay all that money and then at the end of it, you have a car that's hardly worth anything anymore, so I guess it depends on how you look at it.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

Pamie,

I'm glad someone mentioned Consumer Reports to you. You said you wanted to learn how to make, like, more adult decisions and stuff. I'm telling you, looking stuff up in Consumer Reports make you feel like you've done your research, and it's in a very readable, informative format.

Before I got married and my husband showed me this "research" trick, I felt clueless too. But now I've read Consumer Reports' articles on cars, washers and dryers, pet food, and other stuff, and it's a really easy but intelligent way to get a lot of info on a lot of different products.

Consumer Reports _is_ your stepping stone to grown-up financial decisions.

Thank you, and goodnight.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

Since this has become a Saturn lovefest I had to expostulate some more. We bought a new '97 Saturn; in 1997. Get it? The car is good, no doubt about it. Just try not to put 100,000 miles on it in two years. You had better like your Saturn dealership, 'cause your going to be seeing a lot more of their service department than you would like. We have replaced the OC valve(whatever the hell that is) and the generator/alternator. Something else...I can't remember. Those things really shouldn't go bad in two years. Not even at 100,000 miles. My wife is religious about getting the oil changed every 3,000. Yes, she Get's it changed. I will not change the oil EVERY month. No way. They(saturn) have also had to re-glue the driver side door seal back on four times now. It's like having a convertible in your left ear. The overheating in traffic problem seems to be better in the newer models; also there is a bit more room for the big doof in your life.

I'd like to know if anybody has a Neon, and how do you like it?

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

Speaking as the big doof, I appreciate that.

Your car is worth about $3000 in trade in. You can do that research on the web. I don't know why I didn't just tell you in person. I wanted to post but I didn't really have anything to say.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 1999

www.cars.com

go there. there's a tabbed sort of menu thing on the left. chose what you want (ie. search for reports on car makes/models or search for cars for sale in your area). the reports are really detailed, including safety ratings, long term ownership costs graded as low, average or high etc. this site gave me a good start. also, if you do a search on 'car buying' or 'used cars' or some such thing, you will turn up all sorts of handy (often government provided) check lists --> on what to look for, what to check when you're on the lot, what questions to ask the dealer. also on what to have checked by a mechanic before you buy. here's one that's really good : http://smogcheck.ca.gov/CPO/100016.htm and here's another one : http://www.carclicks.com/used/index.html now both of these two links are for used cars, but carlicks has a new car site (carclicks.com) and the link at the top does the new cars as well. good luck! i'm currently on the hunt for a sentra. not a lot of them for sale in the paper - i may end up having to buy from a dealer... and it will be my first time! i'm not sure whether i should take someone (male) with me or not. i look about... 15 sooo. any opinions out there? are the dealers really condescending to women? bad attitudes or any such thing? jk

-- Anonymous, June 07, 1999

I saw an investigative report (no idea what show, Dateline, 20/20, whatever), where they recommended discussing the price with the dealer as a purchase price, then let them know that you want to lease it. Evidently they jack it up if you tell them up front that you're going to lease. The difference reported was up to $2,000.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 1999

You may want to try leasing from an autobroker, my brother did several times and is very happy.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 1999

I'm driving a 1990 Mazda pickup truck, which has cost me $3000 so far this year for a new clutch, transmission seals, master and slave cylinder, valve and ring job, timing belt, ect. And the damn thing still makes weird noises, idles rough, and needs new shocks, which I hear is another couple hundred bucks.

The worst indignity is that I've been driving it so long my ass has worn a big depression in the seat, near the left edge, and now my tender fannny is constantly sliding into the crack between the door and seat as I drive.

Plus the speakers are totally blown, so the radio sounds like it's being played through a kazoo. Pathetically, i still listen to it.

Despite all this, I still like my truck and it breaks my heart to see it getting so run down and crappy. Sigh.

So, I know how you feel, and you have my sympathy. To back up everybody else, lease if you aren't going to go over the mileage limit, or you'll get screwed. I commute, so it wouldn't work for me. Plus, i think the glory of owning a car is to be able to use it on a whim, and I know the mileage penalties on a lease would always be in the back of my mind.

if you get a used car, get one with LOW mileage, even if it's not sexy. Once a car hits 120K, you might as well just set fire to your wallet.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 1999

I'm not a fan of the Saturn for one reason: I'm too tall. 6'5", and I just don't fit in them.

I think highly of Honda. I've got an '88 Civic, and the only major piece of work it's ever needed was a new clutch. Considering that it went over 150k miles before the clutch baked itself, I'm not complaining. Now the car has over 170k, and it's still running beautifully, other than a tendency for the "Check Engine" light to come on. When that happens, I turn off the car and restart it, and it's fine.

On the leasing/buying debate, I'd buy. I'm of the "buy it and drive it until it's dead" school of thought. Buy something with a good reputation for longevity, and then drive it into the ground.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 1999

I don't own a car, nor do I even have a license, but it seems like this is a great step-by-step way to actually going out and making the purchase:

http://www.fool.com/car/Buyingacar.htm

-- Anonymous, August 23, 1999

I also suggest that if at all possible, to start shopping for a car a year ahead of time. That way you know exactly what you want and can wait around until a great deal comes up later.

Oh, and don't forget. Always try to befriend a mechanic not affliated with your car dealership. You can ask him/her to check out a car for you, to be sure it's in good shape. This is almost vital if you buy a car from a private owner.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 1999