This is for the benefit of those who choose to be dependent :

A human can survive three days without water. The last day is not fun.

Assume for a moment the worst happens, all power goes off. Total black-out. For three weeks, maybe longer. The local utility is unable to pump. No tap water. No showers. No flush toilets. No laundry. No dish washer. No brushing teeth. No herbal teas. No pasta. Zip. What will you do? You have three days to solve this problem.

Forget driving to the store to buy bottled water. The shelves are empty. And you thought you were the only one to think of this? Forget driving anywhere. No electricity to pump gas, remember? Your stuck at home. I'll wait while this slowly sinks in.

Ok, so you'll live on whatever canned beverages are around the house. It is estimated that one gallon of water per day per person is needed for drinking, cooking and minimal hygiene. How much time did that buy you? What will you give your five year old, when all that's left is beer!.

Now you're thinking! The 50 gallon hot water heater! Let's assume you manage to shut off the supply before it's tainted by any contaminated city water that might have trickled into the tank at low pressure. Let's assume you remember to turn off the gas, as if there was any. Let's also assume your family of four is disciplined enough to not waste not one drop. (It could happen!) You just survived an additional 15 days. Now what?.

By now you have no clean underwear, you look like a Afganian sheep herder, and smell like worse than the sheep. And this is only the second week. By now the water tank is dry. There is no potable water for miles.

Oh, by the way. The power outage has been extended an additional three weeks. Not that it makes any difference, the pipes in your house have frozen anyway. It's January, remember?

You're thirsty and desperate. You fight panic. Why hasn't the government / utilities fixed things? Why is it taking so long? You realize your complete and utter dependence on a rusty 1" pipe to supply your family with the most basic of human necessities. The provider at the other end of that pipe has failed and left you to your own devices. You're on your own, pal! You are as helpless as a baby and you are being weaned. You don't like it one damn bit.

You trudge five miles to the nearest river and haul back five gallons. Maybe you have the sense to boil the water, maybe not. No matter. Half the population has dysentery. Eventually you're going to get it too. Your toilet is a hole in the ground in your backyard. It smells bad. But what can you do? The residents along the river have the same problem. They shovel theirs into the river. The same river water you are carrying home to drink.

Are you in a cold sweat, yet?

-- Hawthorne (00@00.com), May 28, 1999

Answers

Oh how oh how did all those people survive without electricity and running water....Gee....must have been a miracle....

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

Good observation, Tala, but if you're living in a city the size of NYC, Atlanta, etc., most of the millions of people whose main skill at acquiring water is by "turning on the faucet". Would they know where to get the water and have the means to transport, purify and disinfect it properly without government assistance?

I guess it would be possible to establish a means of manual distribution, but IMO it would have to be a well-planned effort in order to execute the plan in a timely manner.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), May 28, 1999.

Are you in a cold sweat, yet?

-- fan the (cult@fla.mes), May 28, 1999.

Well, Tala, some people survived, indeed they did. But many more died of cholera (as they do now in Third-World countries) and were weakened by water-borne parasites (as they are now, etc.) and fell prey to other diseases (as they do, etc.). Notice the recent government warnings about deli-type meats? That's because of Listeria, a bacteria passed by those who didn't wash their hands after using the john. E.coli is another one, hepatitis too. We won't talk about those super, resistant bugs lurking around these days. If you want to talk about how many people survived without abundant water, just look at mortality statistics for 100 years ago and compare them to today.

-- Wash (hands@once.oaf), May 28, 1999.

Maybe this is what the world needs...a wake up call...this world is way to crowded and busy and full of materialism, ego, laziness, and self-centered attitudes. Maybe we will learn cooperation and general good nature. Maybe will will learn to help one another and pull together to survive. I doubt it though...people are too worried about what they will lose and how this will devestate them. The whole act of paranoia just perpetuates the problem. So what if we loose our water? So what if we loose our electricity? Can we not overcome this with out losing our minds and making it worse? Maybe I am an idealist...maybe I am wrong...but I guess we will see come January first. But I can almost bet the people struck with paranoia will only make it worse. I myself will continue on as usual...while people run around with their heads cut-off.

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

That's cool Tala, you are a walking example of Darwinism in action.

Not so cool for your unborn offspring but - hey - shit happens, right?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 28, 1999.

FYI...I have one already...and I am sure we will all be just fine...

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

Andy,

Tala is a polly of the less informed type. He/she can't imagine a million people without water, let alone 30 million ( Bennett and Kozy ) Water has always come out of the tap, and always will, if not, we'll just walk down the street and,,,What?

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 28, 1999.

I think that is a little unfair...I can imagine, and albeit I may not be keeping up quite so much with this as you all, I do keep tabs on it. Maybe this isn't enough...I have lived without running water and without electricity for a long period of time and I survived just fine. I have survivor skills and so does my husband. Maybe we just don't want to be part of the mass hysteria...we are willing to get off our butts and survive as opposed to stock-piling and biting my nails. I know I can survive without modern "conveniences". But I will not buy into the hysteria...

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

Tala,

my words were harsh and I intended them to be so to wake you up - if you have a young one and I have no reason to disbelieve you then IMHO your ego is interfering with your parental responsibility.

I'm being as kind as possible.

Have a rethink Tala, no second chances here. BTW do you see any hysteria on tv, in time magazine, in the quality papers?

I don't - you are wrong, there is NO hysteria, that's part of the problem, as another poster said today we all have more info. on Star Wars in the last two weeks than on y2k in the last two years.

Ya gotta be a troll and I bit - silly me :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 28, 1999.

Tala,

Maybe you live way out in the boonies like me. I have grav fed water and sewer. I have turkeys and quail running around in my yard. I have the Pacific ocean and all the fish in it within walking distance. I live in the bannana belt and can grow veggies year round in a green house. I have elk, deer, and bear that wander in and scare hell out of my cats. My electric bill in the dead of winter was $16.00.

If you aren't as fortunate as me ( and danm few are ) you might have a problem.

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 28, 1999.

LOL...I can understand...in a way...I just disagree about some things...like getting all excited and over-reacting...Doesn't a calm head always prevail?

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

I do live in the boonies...so maybe that does help....well water and fireplace and outhouse...so maybe there is where my calmness comes from...

-- Tala (tala@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

Well no shit Tala,

Now, try to imagine all the poeple that live in more populated areas. Can you see their concern yet? That is why this board was created, to help other people that aren't as fortunate as us to prepare to save their own lives.

Your kinda Troll input is not welcome and could cost others their lives. Think about it.

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 28, 1999.

Well?

Come on Tala. It's been real time so far. Did you go back to sleep?

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 28, 1999.

Oh this is just priceless. We have Tala making snide remarks but then a dozen posts later Tala mentions that he/she has a well, fireplace and outhouse. A Y2K version of "Let them eat cake". So Tala, you plan on flying into Los Angeles on 12/31/99 and staying around a few days to party?

Hawthorne, you really are a bit optimistic, one gallon for drinking, and cooking and minimal hygiene? I suppose that might be true if you are in a cool place, don't do anything physical, and drink all the food prep water. Meanwhile, in warmer places doing physical stuff one gallon might cover just drinking, period. Am I being picky? Yup. Am I trying to underline, italicize, and boldface what Hawthrone is saying? Yup. Should we think about the fact that if the power goes people will be doing all sorts of stupid things to keep warm? Yup. Should I point out that in the better 19th century houses they usually had an outside door in each room because fires from fireplaces and kerosene lamps were so common, this was a safety feature? What good is a working firetruck if there is no water at the hydrant and the onboard carried water isn't enough?

Thanks Hawthorne, good post. Sometimes people need a 2x4 across the bridge to wake up.

P.S. Many water-bourne diseases only become fatal due to improper electrolyte replacement. http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/ORIENT

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), May 28, 1999.

Even as a non-doom-monger, I find the vision of a city with no natural water supply and a failed artificial supply quite chilling. If I lived in such, I'd have moved out a long time ago. If you live in (say) Las Vegas, take the above deadly seriously.

On the other hand, for London UK (or Seattle): 30" of rain per annum on 800 sq. ft. of roof translates to lots of gallons per day. Just make sure you've got enough stored to get started with. A water butt or two is an environment-friendly addition to any garden.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), May 28, 1999.

Re water-borne bacteria: folks in times past didn't know they existed, or didn't appreciate the dangers.

Today we do. Sterilizing the water we drink is easy. Boil it, or add a few drops of Chlorine bleach, or distill it in a solar still. The difference here is knowledge versus ignorance; fire has been around a long time, and a mediaeval apothercary could have made bleach.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), May 28, 1999.

Tala -- Before you said anything else you should have posted that you live in the boonies, & have wellwater, fireplace, outhouse. And should have said that if others want to have as much peace of mind as you, that they should take whatever steps are necessary to be in the boonies with outhouse, wellwater, and a fireplace by early winter if not sooner. Otherwise you are misleading those dependent on public utilities to relax, do nothing, and then die of dehydration. You will be partially responsible for their deaths.

Gloating? When you posted the first time were you gloating? Sorta feels that way now that I know you don't live in a small apartment in the middle of a huge city the way I do. Well, it's been real. But I better go now and fill up another 2-liter soda bottle with tap water and 6 drops of bleach. Think of me on January 4, 2000. With all the bottles of water under my bed. Or gee, maybe I should go pour them all down the drain now since Tala says it's not necessary to store up water. If all you want to do is gloat, please don't do it on Timebomb 2000.

-- Wallflower (y2kwallflr@aol.com), May 28, 1999.

Perhaps Tala does live in a studio apartment in the middle of NYC and upon realizing the stupidity of her first post.....chose to bow out of it by blowing sunshine up our shorts with her little story of outhouses. She has not returned because she has her face shoved in the local rural property realators guide. Root cellars are a BIG plus Tala...unless you have solar for your frig!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 28, 1999.

What will I do? Lessee (I live in a small town of 10,000, 20 minutes from Minneapolis).....

I'll probably...

1) Go downstairs and flip the "start" switch on the generator (20kW ng/propane w/500 gallon "aux" propane tank)

2) Install the siphon pump on one of my 8 55-gallon water barrels

3) Install the rotary hand pump on one of 4 55 gallon barrels of gasoline

4) Have dinner, from a 6-month supply of "everyday" food in the basement.

If my water supply becomes exhausted, I'll just pass the river water through our Berkefeld filter.

If the natural gas peters pout, I'll turn the valves, and route the propane to the genset and back into the house, change the jets on the NG furnace (propane conversion kit), and stay warm.

I calculate that if we were to run TOTALLY "off the grid", with judicious use we could get by 4-6 weeks. I am HOPING that we can get at least ONE propane fill sometime during the crisis (price is NOT important), and we'd be able to last until early spring. If things haven't recovered by then, we're ALL in a world of sh*t.

A little preparation is good for the soul.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), May 28, 1999.

Tala:

Your statement "the world is way too crowded" really struck a nerve with me. Here YOU are, in a rural location, able to sustain your family in a crisis. There are THOUSANDS of others who are not so fortunate. Obviously, when you say "the world is too crowded", you are arrogantly sitting there with the knowledge that it will be OTHERS who will be killed off, so "too bad, I'm just glad it's not me and my family".

We've been trying to make a decision about buying rural property - and deciding whether we wanted to be isolated or have some neighbors - please let me know whereYOU you live so I don't choose YOU as a neighbor!

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), May 28, 1999.

Don't overlook that Tala also says s/he has "survival skills". If the power goes, then Dan Blather won't be around to give us tips on how to avoid dysentery.

If you are on public water supplied by a gravity-feed system (elevated water storage tanks), then you will probably have some advanced notice to fill up containers. I will have stored water (filling most of the containers at the last minute), rain barrels for my downspouts, and a red flyer wagon to trek to the local stream if necessary. I will also have the means to boil and filter water.

www.watertanks.com has a 200-gallon grade-food quality "bag" (and lots of other goodies) that ships in a box about the size of a small toaster oven. Really easy to store if you don't need it, but terrific insurance if you discover that you do.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 28, 1999.

Smells to me as if Tala is a memebuster. You know, infected by the anti-Yourdon meme over at Debunking Y2K. He/she wants to: one, prevent newbies from being infected by our mind viruses; and two, save us pro-Yourdon memes from our memes. That's why you see the emphasis on over-reaction in the post. Debunkers believe in stockpiling, just not overrreacting (whatever that is) or deriving income in any way from Y2K. No I haven't been drinking infected water, that's the thinking of the webmaster and regulars at the Debunking forum. And they think WE'RE crazy!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 28, 1999.

Brooks -- somebody must've sold you an industrial-grade toaster oven. The Watertanks.com 200 gallon water bag, according to their web site, is 48" x 40" x 24" high when full. I think they're neat, but they aren't quite as small as you think.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

OK OK Brooks! -- reread your post with more care, you're right, the box the bags ship in is just about the size of a small toaster oven. (Memo to self: settle down!)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.

Thanks, Hawthorne, good post and lots for us to think about.

Tala, how did they do it? Forgive me, if my facts are a bit off here, but the entire population of the U.S. in 1870 or 1890 was under 4 million with the majority east of the Mississippi. A lot easier back then to make like a bear in the woods without polluting anything. Even then we don't know how many may have died on the trek west from not being able to locate water or from polluted water anywhere. After all the life expectancy was also much lower then.

Now we have several times that many living in just one large city area. And even in smaller cities and suburbs you are not allowed to put in a well or septic tank much less an outhouse.

The purpose of this board and Hawthorne's post is IMHO not to create hysteria, but rather thoughtful and prudent preparation for all contingencies.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), May 28, 1999.

All any of you are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. When the first MacDonalds closes, and there is no service from the take-out window at BurgerKing, then you'll see the cities disgourging wild-eyed people, armed, and ready to take whatever they can get their hands on. Any it may be you! It won't be a pretty scene. We can come up with all the theories we want...but remember desperate people do desperate things.

-- Richard Westerlind (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), May 28, 1999.

Know where your water lives (creeks, streams, springs, etc.) and make sure some lives at home.

Diane

Y2K Solutions Group--STORING AND TREATING WATER

http:// www.readyfory2k.com/11water_storage.html

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 28, 1999.

this...

A previous water thread

-- humpty (no.6@thevillage.com), May 28, 1999.

Aren't the "GI"s just SOOOOoooo kind and gentle, Tala? Their head fear leaders tell them to get the hell out of dodge, but if YOU do it, they flame you! what dorks. what double-standard dorks.

-- used2be (gi@yourdon.but"un"gotit), May 29, 1999.

Sue, if you want to see hysteria, just wait 'til 1/3/2000 and look at a (until then) DGI family(when there are no more DGIs in the West). D., please contact me; I am also in the Twin Cities area, and want more local contacts (for going in on bulk purchases together).

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), May 29, 1999.