"The process of generating, transmitting, and distributing electricity is entirely independent from the calendar. There is no inherent reason for an electrical failure at the arrival of any temporal milestone, including the Year 2000."

This is from the City of Grand Island, Nebraska, Utilities Department. As part of the Year 2000 project at my company, a bank, we are required to monitor the status of our utility providers. I thought you all would get a laugh (or cringe) out of this. If you want to read the letter yourself, I can give you the address of the Department. It is a form letter, so all you have to do is mention you want info on Y2K and you can get this. Unfortunately, it is not anywhere on their web page. Doesn't make me very comfortable....I guess this is where the "localized outages" NERC keeps talking about will happen.

Just thought I would share.

-- newlurker (no@no.com), May 20, 1999

Answers

What makes it so "Ridiculous" ? Just how is the calendar tied into electrical generation and distribution?

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 20, 1999.

Dino,

PSE&G Management estimates the total cost related to Year 2000 readiness will approximate $83 million.

-- Duh (gimme@freaking.break), May 20, 1999.

hmm, well obviously there's the grid synchronization thing, which is both extremely time sensitive - and if their plc s are using generic chip sets more than a couple of years old, there's a reasonable chance that the clock/calendar chip is not y2k compliant..the boxes need to be tested. Then there are other problems which have been discovered, including a large power utility out here on the east coast which discovered that all of it's coal fired plants use a fuel metering system which was not y2k compliant and which would have locked all of the feeder mechanisms shut on 01/01/00 at 00:01 when it hit a divide by zero error...oh all kinds of interesting little things that can happen and which need to be checked.

got proper testing and remediation?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 20, 1999.

"hmm, well obviously there's the grid synchronization thing, which is both extremely time sensitive "

Address "grid synchronization" for us. Just what is there to synchronize on the grid and how is it accomplished?

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 20, 1999.

Just how is the calendar tied into electrical generation and distribution?

See http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch- msg.tcl?msg_id=000qn1. Notice the word "critical". Then explain to me how the NRC auditors got this all wrong.

Thanks.

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), May 20, 1999.

>> Just how is the calendar tied into electrical generation and distribution? "

"See http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch- msg.tcl?msg_id=000qn1. Notice the word "critical". Then explain to me how the NRC auditors got this all wrong. "

Getting a little defensive aren't we? I asked a simple question, you provided links - I read the links - It looks OK to me. Thank you!

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 20, 1999.

Lane,
Your link deals with nukes, and I KNOW Grand Island doesn't have any nukes. There is one in Nebraska, but just barely within fallout range of Grand Island.

-- Walt (walt@lcs.k12.ne.us), May 20, 1999.

An interesting insight I've gathered from my reading to the potential "regional" or localized power outage issue is the impact of possible "islanding." Some power cooperatives and other power utilities unbundled under deregulation, own only the distribution system and not the generation system. They purchase all their power from other utilities. It is conceivable that with islanding of generating utilities that they would be "cut off" without a power source.

If I am wrong in this understanding, please correct me.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), May 20, 1999.

Getting a little defensive aren't we? I asked a simple question, you provided links - I read the links - It looks OK to me. Thank you

Have a nice life.

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), May 20, 1999.

Dino - you want to learn how the grid is kept in synch and in phase (both of which are time critical)? go over to http://www.euy2k.com/ and check out their archives...you'll find that not only are they time sensitive, but many of them are also sensitive to the GPS system clock. Actually you'll find most of that explained in the archives here as well.

translation: do your own homework.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 20, 1999.

"Dino - you want to learn how the grid is kept in synch and in phase (both of which are time critical)? go over to http://www.euy2k.com/ and check out their archives...you'll find that not only are they time sensitive, but many of them are also sensitive to the GPS system clock. Actually you'll find most of that explained in the archives here as well. translation: do your own homework. "

Okay - thanks for the links - Unfortunatly the link you provided does not agree with what you are saying

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

- Take a look:

http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/PP/RC/dm9849.htm

linked from

http://www.euy2k.com/column.htm

Another Myth, We Need Computers to Synchronize By Dick Mills December 11, 1998 Persistent discussions on the Internet claim that when we reach the date of GPS rollover on August 22, 1999, power systems will fail. It sounds reasonable. After all, the grid is a synchronous system and how else could one maintain exquisite synchronism across an entire continent without highly accurate clocks. GPS has become one of the most widely used sources of time synchronization signals. Other people claim that power plants must carefully synchronize their plans with other power plants with the aid of computers, before joining the grid. In addition, the literature on SCADA and EMS systems sometimes mentions that they use GPS signals to synchronize their clocks.

You probably already guessed my answer from the title. No. Neither GPS nor computers are critical to the process. The actual synchronism mechanisms are simpler, more elegant, and more interesting than any computer chip application. They have to be. Theyve been in use since before 1880. Anyhow, the subject gives me an excuse to once again use simple pictures to illustrate Y2K points.

syn7chro7nize (sNng-kre-nlz', sNn -) verb, intransitive 1. To occur at the same time; be simultaneous. 2. To operate in unison

Think of several metal rods. All of them spin rapidly around the dashed axis line, but none are connected to the others. Suppose we would like them to spin in synchronously. A simple way is to arrange this is to shape the ends so that they naturally notch together when pressed end-to-end. The little picture shows it. Once pushed together, they spin in perfect synchronism as if they were a single rot. This analogy works no matter how many rods sections are pushed together and not matter how long they are. It could be thousands of miles long.

Now further suppose that some of the rods are rigid, while others are made of rubber. The rubber sections can twist. The picture below helps to illustrate this point with hands at each exerting twisting forces in opposite directions. The dotted line painted on the rubber section helps you visualize the twisting action. When the dotted line is not straight, there is a so-called phase angle difference between the two ends.

Synchronous power grids work somewhat analogously. Think of one of the hands as a motor in your house and the other as a generator at the power plant, and the rubber section as the transmission and distribution system.

As long as the sections are pushed together, and notch, that they rotate in synchronism. In USA power systems, they rotate 60 times per second, or 60 Hertz. At the end of one minute, each end will have completed 3,600 rotations. At the end of a year, each end will have completed 1,893,456,000 rotations. Thats pretty synchronous to me.

Note that if we are going to transmit power from one end to the other, that the rubber section in the middle must necessarily twist. No twist, no power. A twist between the two ends is analogous to a phase angle difference between the AC voltage at two points in the power system. No phase difference, no power. Therefore, the synchronism must deviate from perfection just enough to let one end get a little ahead of the other end and cause the twist.

If we twist too much, the shaped end of the rubber section might distort in shape and hop out of the notch. If that happened, it might "snap back in" the next time around after slipping one whole rotation, or it might just continue slipping. The two ends would then not be in synchronism, and the rubber section in the middle would be treated violently and perhaps get all chewed up. In a rough sort of way, this behavior is analogous to instability in power grids you may have heard of. Sometimes, the maximum power we can ship from one place to another on the grid is limited by the risks of instability.

Analogies are seldom perfect. Real power grids may branch, branch again, have loops, and multiple parallel paths from one point to another. Our mechanical analog with the rods can only be extended in a straight line.

Now let's try to apply the analogy to the process of initially synchronizing two separate power grid islands. Closing a circuit breaker to connect the two does this. Before the breaker is closed, the islands are free to spin with different speeds and different phases. This is illustrated by a knife switch, initially open, then closed.

After the breaker is closed, the two will be locked together.

The closest mechanical analogy I can imagine using the rods is to cut grooves into each of two rods, and to have a matching "key" that can fit into the grooves. Pushing the key into the grooves locks the two together and is analogous to closing the electric circuit breaker.

If the rods are very big and heavy, and the key is small and fragile, the key will break unless the two ends are very close to syncronism before insertion. To prevent the key from breaking the two rods must be spinning at almost exactly the same speeds, and the same phases (the grooves in the rods line up when the phases are the same). If we do it wrong in a real power grid, the result is truly violent. So- called missynchronization can result in explosions, fires and many millions of dollars of damage.

Correct synchronization of generators to a grid, or two grids to each other, is accomplished with the aid of an analog instrument called a synchroscope. It measures the phase angle difference between the two poles of the switch. It imagine the mechanical analogy, think of a little person actually riding in one of the grooves of one of the rods, and looking out over the gap at the groove in the other rod. The little guy can call out very accurately when it's OK to push the key home.

In case you haven't noticed. None of the things mentioned so far depend even a little bit on computers or chips or electronics of any kind. That's the point.

"Synchronize your watches, Gentlemen." - John Wayne

There are other reasons to have accurate timekeeping in power system operations. One of them is the implementation of scheduled shipments of power from one area to another. Both of the power systems involves in such an interchange must input the scheduled amount of power, start time and end time into their respective EMS computers. If the clocks in the two computers aren't well synchronized, the effect is somewhat disruptive, although not disastrous.

Another use of accurate time is to label events. When something bad happens causing a plant trip or a grid collapse, (see Dancing On the Rim of the Canyon), the engineers are eager to do a post mortem analysis to determine exactly what happened on which sequence. Without very accurate time labeling of events, the records can't be used to determine the sequence.

Neither of these functions is absolutely critical to keeping the lights on.

Some EMS systems use the timing signals from GPS to establish an accurate time reference. Some use the WWV radio signal from the national bureau of standards. If neither of these is available, any source of simultaneous events can be used to synchronize clocks. The Weather Channel is a good one. The theme music from National Public Radio's hourly news broadcasts could be another. Remember that the important point is that all utilities in the grid synchronize their watches with the same source. The accuracy of the common source is less important.

If any utilities are concerned that the GPS rollover on August 22, 1999 will cause any kind of disruption, they should switch to another source of time reference in advance. In fact, they could switch today and leave it that way until well after 2000.

Read Dick Mills Bio Read Dick Mills' Power Prognosis

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 20, 1999.

Dino,

Y' beat me to it. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 20, 1999.

COBAL,

I must say, that was a very informative explanation about how electricity is moved thru the grid. So I guess we don't need all those computers, monitors, chip/controllers, etc. I know I certainly don't have or need those things in my portable generator. Wonder why the industry has put so many of those things in there? I mean the date sensative stuff. Or isn't any of that stuff date sensitive and therefore nothing to worry about? I've kind of been wondering about the railroads too, with all their computer controlled switches or *points". I guess that's another system that doesn't depend on any date sensitive computers. I've read that every railroad switch can be manually thrown by someone with a big lever, crowbar, whatever. So even though the railroads have turned a simple mechanical problem into a computer dependent system, basically it can all be done without the computers, I guess, and traffic will flow normally. Isn't this what you are saying about electric distribution? We can have normal flow of power without all those exotic new enhancements? Basically, we just need a whole bunch of little people to ride those rods and holler back to the engineer when it's safe to throw that grid switch. Did I get that right?

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 21, 1999.

Gordon said: "Basically, we just need a whole bunch of little people to ride those rods and holler back to the engineer when it's safe to throw that grid switch. Did I get that right? "

Gordon, you are asking the wrong guy. You need to ask Dick Mills who was the author of that little piece. Arlin said that the links he gave had all the answers so I am just taking him on his word about that.

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 21, 1999.

Dino,

You are a troublemaker! Now I finally think I see why we have all the legacy code problems in old mainframe software. You were in there doing a lot of "what if" fun stuff for years, having a ball, and never cleaning up after yourself. Right? Be honest now. :-)

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 21, 1999.

"So- called missynchronization can result in explosions, fires and many millions of dollars of damage."

Gee...

-- Wiseguy (got@it.gov), May 21, 1999.

Gordon said: "You are a troublemaker! Now I finally think I see why we have all the legacy code problems in old mainframe software. You were in there doing a lot of "what if" fun stuff for years, having a ball, and never cleaning up after yourself. Right? Be honest now. :-) "

Dang - you caught me... :-)

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), May 21, 1999.