OK, we have discussed the railroad situation several times. The power plants depend on train loads of coal and uranium for fuel. What about the mining industry? I hear that it has become high tech. No more guys with pick axes. How are they coming along?

-- Joe O (ozarkjoe@yahoo.com), March 03, 1999

Answers

Great question Joe. They do have all those robo-miners running around, don't they? Yes, very good question. Hope we get some feedback. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 03, 1999.

I guess I'll throw in my take on it, for what it is worth. I have been working in the East Texas lignite mines for 23 years, mining and supplying fuel for our local power plants. First off the plants keep a stockpile of lignite on hand for emergency use, usually about a months supply. However this stockpiled lignite loses BTU's through oxidation the longer it sits and eventually turns to dirt. The calculated tonage they have on hand often does not reflect this loss of btu's so the actual run time out of the stockpile is usually signifigantly less than projected.

The huge draglines used to dig the open pits are electrically powered and vulnerable to embedded chip problems due to computerized control systems and lubrication systems. Of course if the power goes out at the plant due to their problems the draglines are dead in the water too, so no further stockpiling of coal, or trans-shipment of coal to a still operating plant is possible.

Dozers, Loaders, Haul Trucks, Graders, and other actual mining- haulage equipment also have on board computer systems that may be vulnerable. Caterpillar and Komatsu are the primary makes in use here in East Texas. A single 750 meg generating mine will run through eight to ten thousand gallons per day of diesel fuel to keep it's equipment running. As is evident any interruption in the supply of diesel fuel will bring the mine to a dead halt.

Some mines are remotely located from the plants and ship their coal via railways from a central collection point to the plant, some are located immediately adjacent to the plant and truck the coal directly to the plant. Here we have the vulnerability of the railroads in some areas, compounded by the fact that at least one of the Texas Utilities plants uses electric locomotives to move the trains which will not run if the power goes out. In the case of trucked coal we are looking again at vulnerability to diesel shortages. In short the supply of coal to the plants depends first on the reliability of the plants themselves, and on the continued availability of diesel fuel.

One other area of concern is the reliability of mining equipment. The operating conditions are harsh, the machines take a real beating and they break down on average every few days. A typical mining operation will have from 10 to 20 percent of its equipment down for repairs at any given time. If replacement parts are not available in less than three weeks normal downtime will put a mine out of business.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), March 03, 1999.

Nikolai, do they use JIT for replacements? Can they be persuaded to stockpile a few of the most likely things that break?

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), March 03, 1999.

Joe,

It's not just the coal mines, it's everything! Just think of any basic service and then think what are the links in the supply chain to provide that service? Some examples that come to mind are: food, water, electricity, gasoline, natural gas, sewage, telecommunications, mail, mass transit, health care, banking, etc., etc.

-- Watcher (anon@anon.com), March 03, 1999.

It would be interesting to hear from Paul Davis on this topic. He also worked in coal mines for some time.

-- The Tall Man (mortuary@phantasm.com), March 03, 1999.

My husgand works in the coal fields of Kentucky. They aren't talking Y2k as far as he knows.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), March 03, 1999.

Nikoli,

Got a feeling you and I are real close here in ET. Email me @ parker@ledco.com Maybe we can have a cup of coffee and compare notes.

-- Vic (Roadrunner@compliant.com), March 03, 1999.

Underground mines (and far west surface mines) are vunerable to the same "linked support systems" you mention at th eTX lignite mines - electric powered trains, loaders, grinders, packers, chutes, graders and sorters, weight control, business software and billing, excavation and follod control.

Most important: electric hoists, elevators, fuel pumps (for trucks and trains and surface transportation for explosive teams), and water pumps.

Top side services too are essential for life underground: communication, lights, fire fighting, and VENTILATION.

If the power goes out at the top of the mineshaft - you won't get coal from the bottom of the mineshaft. (If the power goes out at the inlet to the refinery (or oil field) you won't get processed fuel out the other end to run the train, plane, or automobile.)

Just another little techno factoid to make your day.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 03, 1999.

Tricia, many commonly used parts are warehoused on site, but major components such as engines, transmissions, and hydroulic pumps are ordered from the dealers on demand. Cannibalization of parts from hopelessly down machines can and will extend operational life of remaining equipment, but mine efficiency and tonnage deliveries will decline as this process continues. A 750 megawatt lignite plant burns approximately 12,000 tons of fuel per day at normal throttle. If the mines are no longer capable of supplying this amount of fuel they have to throttle back on the plant, decreasing electrical output. They can do this only to limited extent, as once the steam pressure drops past a certain point the plant will not be operational.

If the dekivery trains go down a single 750 unit would require approximately 700 semi-truck loads of coal per day to operate. The triple 750 across the road from me would require about two thousand truckloads per day. Clearly this is not an option.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), March 03, 1999.

In the first place, a nuclear plant is refueled perhaps twice a year. That is the great advantage of being nuclear.

In the second place, it all depends on where you are I suppose. A large mine uses more or less computer controlled equipment depending on the size and type of the mine. Most of the large equipment is electrical in nature - and does not have much if any date dependancy. The most common controller used by the outfit I worked for was an Allen Bradley PLC-5 which has no Y2K issues whatsoever. We also used some Opto20 BrainBoards in water cleaning control equipment - they don't have issues but have to be controlled by a compliant computer. Not a big problem - computer equipment had a pretty short life due to dust and so on and was replaced at a pretty quick clip. AND - I can't speak for anyone else but we had a lab that tested computer controls for fitness for use. They had to approve everything before it was used. So we knew what was out there and where it was. As for the electric supply to the mines - there were four or five big electric plants in the vicinity. Obviously - it does not cost as much if you don't ship the coal long distances. And we had a lot of diesel stored on site - about two weeks worth running at full tilt. That would have been enough time to produce about 100,000 tons washed coal, or 128,000 tons of raw coal. (Hey, I never said I worked at SMALL mines.)

In the underground parts (I got to stay on top thank goodness, working in a height of 32 inches is not fun) the equipment was almost entirely electrical - but almost all was controlled by an operator on the machine. The sole exception was a 'snake' a sort of mobile conveyor belt that can follow a miner and pick up the coal as it is chewed out of the face. The snake could either follow the miner or could be run by an operator (run one out into the parking lot and you would crack up - they are very silly looking gadgets) - they do have a computer on board but I have not seen any monitoring or dating functions on that machine. I don't think there were any - but it was not my job to know. We were just starting to use snakes when I left the mines - the older system is still mostly in use in the underground mines where a second machine picks up the coal as it is mined and takes it to a conveyor belt to dump.

So I don't think the mines I worked at would have more than minor problems relating to equipment.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), March 06, 1999.

Good info, thanks Paul. It appears taht power through the grid (from the "nearby" electric plants) is essential to getting power (coal) from the grid later.

Lets hope other facilities are as equally ready as the one you worked at.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 06, 1999.