backup electric power to a big structure? If yes, would this be full service including adequate power for heating and air conditioning or a minimum level for lights and small appliances? If power is not provided the tenants will stop paying rent or leave yet it may be cost prohibitive or units may no longer be available that would provide heat and AC for 200 apartment units. Would financing be available, are generators of this size available, could rents be increased to cover these costs, could tenants break leases for lack of electricity etc. etc.? I have not seen discussions of this anywhere. The question came up when the property manager for a large office building complex mentioned at a local awareness meeting that he was not able to get ANY ANSWER from the local city owned electricity provider whether power would be available. He asked specifically for information so that he could make contingency plans and even said he could accept a no electricity answer but to please tell him the truth. The non answer was not a good sign. What response would the banks have for a request for a loan for this purpose? Would they think he is crazy? If they understood Y2k, would they refuse a loan because there would be no fuel to run the system or no cash flow to repay the loan? Does anyone know of a major building where this has been done and ballpark costs? $300,000 or more? Is anyone living in or working in a large building where backup electricity has been provided? What percentage increase in rents if any was charged to the tenants? If you think that power will not be there and are living or working in one of these buildings, what are your plans? It is time to decide. It will be too late to act in another 3 or 4 months. I hope this turns out well but I am not comforable about it in this area.

-- Steve (curious@wondering.com), February 22, 1999

Answers

1. MOVE, 2.Move, 3.move............. There is not enough time to install a backup in a very large building that will give you normal power all of the time. So, M O V E !

-- Scotty (BLehman202@aol.com), February 22, 1999.

Steve, Even if an owner did all that you asked, in 3 weeks all he'd have is a pile of bricks. I would not want to be in the only building in a city with the power on.

-- RB (R@AR.COM), February 22, 1999.

I can understand RB on this. But I have a friend in another city, who lives in a 12-story HUD bldg. with some 180 apartments. Many of the residents are elderly and get around with some difficulty. If they had any money they wouldn't be living there.

If the elevators are not working, stairs are not an option for a lot of these people. If the heat is not on, there will be serious health problems (winter is no joke there).

If and if and if

. Some of these folks have grown children who could put them up temporarily, but my impression is that most of the residents there (and their relatives) have no idea what sort of conditions next year might bring.

I'm not asking for solutions. Just want to keep focused here on the actual situations real people may have to cope with.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 22, 1999.

Landlords are in the business of making money, not spending it. It's not the landlords responsiblity to see to it that the electricity stay on, nor is it their responsibility to provide it for you. Everyone is at the mercy of their power provider. Even hospitals will have a hard time keeping things going, and even then it will be on an emergency and limited power basis. It takes energy to generate energy, once the backup resources are used up and no more is available, it will be another nail in the coffin.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 22, 1999.

Late last week I brought up y2k in a library board meeting (I'm a member) in order to gauge others' reactions. No one else was even considering the possible effects away from their own pc's. The gentleman to my right is the administrator of a nursing home, and he clearly had no idea what he would do if the power was off for even a few days. Their backup plan calls for evacuation to the local school if power goes out at the nursing home, but he has no backup if power is out for the entire area. I hope I got him started thinking.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), February 23, 1999.

Lion - if power is out for 2-3 days -

the "local school" will have no food (refrigerators out), no blankets, no lights, no toilets, no heat, no cooling, no showers, no "elderly friendly" bathroom facilities or resources. No beds, no cots, no privacy, no medical care, no monitors or entertainment, etc.

Tell your friend to keep his people right where they are - unless he absolutely knows about services being up and reliable ahead of time. Better to be in the place you know with the support you have, than a "prison" of an elentary school with no support at all.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.R@csaatl.com), February 23, 1999.

Robert -

Thanks, I'm aware of all of that, I'm trying to get *him* thinking along those lines. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue as to how to direct him. The nursing home has a generator, but it's underpowered for anything but some lights, emergency (short-term) type help only.

Any suggestions?

Cowardly Lion

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), February 23, 1999.

Been thinking about your reply there - and can't come up with any good answers. Try getting a "skull session" with your local Red Cross office - think through what would happen (assume 4 days no power in middle of January as a starter - and then get the Red Cross to work with this retirement home to test solutions.

In other words, make the Red Cross a player on your side by having them try to help analyze solutions with a dry run first. If they (both sides) are interested, then try a "dry run" so the residences can "help with research" coping (for one day maybe) to test the results of the skull session.

For example, you may find that you absolutely must abort the dry run after 1 hour because some mediacal instrument fails, and lives are actually in danger - it would show that an emergency bus is needed at all times from the generator to certain rooms, rather than just for lights in all the rooms.

The people in the nursing home are veterens - old folks certainly who have combatted problems before - make them part of the solution so they "own" their destiny. And so they understand what might happen.

If it works in one place, the Red Cross can apply it elsewhere.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.R@csaatl.com), February 23, 1999.

This is scary. Not one single response from a building owner or manager of plans to install a generator of more than a standby type that would handle heat and power on a mid term basis. My mother is in a nursing home. She and 90 per cent of the occupants would not have a clue on how to cope. The comment above that the nursing home owner had not thought of the problem is also scary. I would like to see at least one electric company do some bragging that they will have power. Even the people relying on the big hydroelectric dams will be dependent on embedded systems that could fail and kill their power and some of them in the cold climates. Will there be a run on motor homes with built in generators? That would avoid the hook up problems.

-- Tom (Tom@ananyous.com), February 23, 1999.

Tom, my husband and I are having to think this through ourselves. Gary's father is 93 and lives in an assisted living home. He is not doing well and Gary has to go over and get him up and dressed in the mornings and puts him to bed at night. He is mentally not able to deal with normal daily functions...if the electricity went off...well we have nightmares about what this means for us ... we will have to bring him home. His needs are constant...his attitude is not the best...he's the terror of the home (very demanding)...and gets very delusional at times. On a good day, he's just a demanding old grump. So...we fervently hope electricity stays on. But the only option for us if it goes out will be to bring him home.

-- Shelia (shelia@active-stream.com), February 24, 1999.