If the Elan II was the best thing I would find it in my budget to buy it. (along with a 50mm lens) I used to take a lot of photos but more-or-less lost the camera and fell into low-income stratum and now am ready to go back to growing photographically. Most of my experience was with Canon A-1 and AE1 plus some vivatar or something.I read Phillip's stuff, and I want to know several things: 1) Is the Canon EOS Elan II w/EF 28-80mm lens the same as or the latest version of the Canon EOS 50 (Elan II) with 24-85 lens to which he refers in his review? (2) For my money, assuming I could stretch to the Elan II if it was strictly necessary, is it better for growth of someone probably reduced to near-rank beginner than the Nikon 8008? (3)Is that better than the Nikon 6006? (4)I am not asking you to compare the two brands, but I was wondering if Phillip's review or rather, recommendation, under what camera to buy on the photonet page, was current enough. I want full manual options, I would be fine with separate flash if it was auto-compatible, I want to be able to add lenses with relative ease from my remote, rural, western home... whaddya recommend these days? I'd rather be in the $400 range than the $650 but... By the way, the 6006 lists at the body alone for $400 now, so how do you spend $400 and get the lens and tripod, too, like Phillip was sayin'? Thanks for your time and anyone elses...

-- Paris St. Clare (larkhavn@televar.com), December 27, 1998

Answers

First, the EOS 50/50e are the same as the Elan II/IIe. The Elans are just U.S. versions of the same cameras. The only difference I have found is that the Japanese only EOS 55 also has a panorama mode, which if you read Phillips pages well, you know is of no real use. The 24-85 lens uses a real ring USM, and has a non-rotating front element, and is faster at the long end than the 28-80, which uses a micro USM and has a rotating front element.

For what it's worth, I switched from and AE-1 to the Elan IIe 2 years ago, and the control layout made it an easy switch. It isn't a perfect camera, but if I designed my perfect camera I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway, so I'm not complaining.

I don't know of any way to get camera, lens and decent tripod for $400. Elan II, 50 f1.8, and cheap tripod for $500 maybe, but cheap tripods are not worth the expense. Also, I recommend paying the extra $50 and getting the Elan IIe. I thought it was a useless gimmick when I first saw it, but I wouldn't think of owning an autofocus SLR without it after using it for 2 years. If nothing else, it gives you depth of field preview by just looking in the upper left corner of the viewfinder. You can always turn it off if you don't like it.

As for the Nikons, I know B&H still sells the 6006, but I'm not sure if it is still in production or not. People who use them have a lot of praise for them, but I was no closer to being able to pick it up, look at it for 2 minutes, and start shooting they way I did with the Elan IIe than I was with an N70. Nikon's user interface makes perfect sense to some people, and they have no problem with it. You may be one of those people. Personally, the UI on the N70 seems to have been designed by a chimpanzee on LSD. There is also no depth of field preview or mirror lock up (not even the pseudo mirror lock up the Elan II has). Nikon lenses are probably just as good as Canon's, and some are cheaper, but there are no Image Stabilizer lenses in Nikon's line yet. Basically, the decision comes down to which best meets your needs, and which feels better in your hands, and makes more sense to operate to YOU. Unfortunately I don't know much about the 6006's features, so I can't tell you if it has as much to grow with as the Elan II.

I will say that almost any modern camera will be capable of doing 99% of the photography the average person would need to do. Face the facts. with landscape work, if you are trying to get as much in focus as possible you don't want to stop down much less than f16 or f22 because of difraction, so you can live without depth of field preview since you are sort of stuck anyway. If you are doing a lot of macro, you might make a better case for DOF preview though. As for mirror lock up, if you do macro work or use a 600 f4, it is needed. If you are handholding, or using wide angle and normal lenses you can live without it unless you are paranoid (I sometimes am, and use it when shooting at 28mm). How often do you do double exposures or need to shoot at 8 frames/sec, or even the 2.5 frames/sec of the Elan II?

In other words, what seems like a simple question isn't. I tend to recommend the Elan IIe a lot, but if you like the feel and the UI of Nikon, the 6006 or even the N70 should be fine.

-- Brad (reloader@webtv.net), December 27, 1998.

I've owned many EOS models (10s, RT, A2, Eos-1, various Rebels), but never an Elan. Before I moved to Canon I owned a Nikon 6006 and an 8008s. The photographer with whom I share studio space owns the N90, N90s, and the F4. So I have working familiarity with both operating systems. I found the Nikon system difficult to use, almost impossible for one who brackets most of his shots. As Phil says, autofocus turned his Nikons into enemies. I would imagine the overall quality of both systems is pretty much a toss-up. I am a Canon user almost entirely because of one feature -- Custom Function 4, which allows me to take focus off the shutter button and put it on a little button under my thumb. I point the sensor at whatever I want to be in sharpest focus, press the button, the camera focuses, I take my thumb off the button, and the camera stays focused at the point of my choice until I want to change it. I think of it as kind of an electronic Leica.

Having said all that, I will say I found the 6006 to be the most user-friendly Nikon, and it has auto-bracketing built in. OTOH, the technology of that camera is very old and the autofocusing isn't all that great.

-- Dave Jenkins (ljenkins@vol.net), December 28, 1998.

Dave, you'll be glad to know that both the F5 and F100 have that feature, and oddly enough, it's enabled by custom setting #4.

-- Danny Weber (danny_weber@compuserve.com), December 28, 1998.

Thanks, Danny. I'm aware that Nikon now offers Custom Function 4, but at what price? Canon has had that capability on every body in the line since the 630 of around 1990 vintage. The only exceptions are the very cheapest Canons -- the entry level Rebel, and maybe the first Elan.

-- Dave Jenkins (ljenkins@vol.net), December 29, 1998.

As to getting into a system cheaply, why not consider going used. You can probably pick up a used N6006 body for around $250 in good shape. With a lens I'm quite sure you can get a setup for under $400. I've bought quite a few camera items used, and for the most part they have all been in excellent condition. Good luck.

-- John Foster (fostjoh@sc.llu.edu), January 01, 1999.

You might consider the Minolta 600si... it is available new at Sammy's Camera for $300. That's well within your $400 range, it's in some ways better than the N70, someways not as good...but this will always be the case between any two products made with diffrent design philosophies.

With absolute certanty, the egornomics of the 600si are better than anything Nikon has in the sub $1000 range. I can't compare this to Canon though, I'm mostly familar with Nikon and Minolta goods.

The Minolta will be the only camera in this range to offer wireless remote TTL flash.

If you were to get a 600si, a 3500 Flash (GN110, auto-zoom, wireles TTL), and a Sigma 28-70 F2.8 zoom, you'd be looking for a pricetag coming in under $700...for everything... and this would be all new equiptment.

In the Nikon line, I'd recomend the N-70, it'd be the closet match to the 600si, after lense, flash, and remote flash controller, it'd cost you a bit more though.

Unfortunately, I can't guide you along the Canon path, I'm not that familar with their bodies outside of the Rebel-G

-- Roseblood (kyller@annex.com), May 12, 1999.