Since I've redirected a few F100 questions here from the photo.net forums, I thought I should start a thread with a link to the new Nikon F100 body.

If this has to be a question I guess I'd ask in what way will this new body improve your photography?

-- Bob Atkins (bobatkins@hotmail.com), November 24, 1998

Answers

How will it improve my photography? Well, it won't right now since I no longer own Nikon equipment. But thinking back to the days of my N90s and shooting fast moving wildlife I think it will give me a better shot at getting more good images due to the multiple focusing points that the N90s does not have, and what appears to be an easier method of exposure adjustment and bracketing. This last one is a bit of a guess, but I think that is what Nikon is talking about.

Other than that, who knows? I am not sure that the EOS 3 would offer me much more improvement than what I stated for the F100. We could all go broke buying all of these new toys.

-- Stanley McManus (Stanshooter@mailexcite.com), November 24, 1998.

Mirror lock up on the F100? couldn't see it on the spec sheet. Knowing Nikon wouldn't be suprised if they hadn't included it.

-- jason elsworth (jason.elsworth@vuw.ac.nz), November 24, 1998.

It appears that the data back will print exposure information on frame 0. That would certainly be a convenience for those of us who forget to record exposure information and then find we need it to figure out why one shot worked and the other was poorly exposed. But necessary? No. I could try harder to record info.

-- Stanley McManus (Stanshooter@mailexcite.com), November 24, 1998.

Well, imprinting on frame 0 is fine, but I've been using the MC-31 cable to download shooting data to my computer, which works well anyways without needing a data back.

What I like about the F100 is that it gives me exposure bracketing without needing the multifunction back, which I've owned for 3 years and which has sat in my desk drawer for 2 years. If I haven't looked at it for a few weeks, I completely forget how to use the darn thing.

Also, Nikon made a mistake when they reduced the analog metering display range from 4EV in the N8008 to 2EV in the N90s, and they've brought the range back up to 4EV in the F100. This makes it much more practically useful. In principle, with the 5 area spot metering, you could set your composition and check the exposure range of your scene without movement.

Faster autofocus is always a useful toy, perhaps it'll make my 80-200mm f2.8 fast enough that I won't covet the new Silent Wave version.

Finally, a little more metal in the construction sounds good, as long as you're going to carry the weight of a metal chassis anyways.

-- Andrew Y. Kim (andy_roo@mit.edu), November 24, 1998.

The three most important features I'm looking for:

1. DOF preview 2. Mirror lockup 3. 100% area viewfinder

If the F100 has all those features, I'll take 2 of em. If not, I'll get an F4s.

-- joie loi (johe@vietnam.com), November 24, 1998.

Thanks for putting up the link Bob. I haven't had time to learn HTML, so it does help. As far as having to ask a question, no you didn't have to since I created this forum for people to discuss equipment. For that matter, technique, film, and just about anything photographic is fair game as long as the tone is civil.

To that end, the question asked is fine as long as people remain civil. We all know new cameras won't make you a better photographer, but faster AF, better metering, longer lenses, etc MIGHT help you get a shot you wouldn't have gotten under identical conditions with what you are using now. Keep the comments civil to this regard, or they will be deleted as soon as I notice them.

To anyone who thinks you need the latest camera to get a decent image, take a look at one of the pictures Bob posted in his Nature Photography Image Critique forum of some wet pebbles, and read down through the comments until he finally reveals what he used. You may be surprised.

-- Brad (reloader@webtv.net), November 24, 1998.

The F100 does not seem to have MLU. At very least, it doesn't have a lever in the usual place that Nikon puts a MLU lever. It does have all mode DOF preview(works in program) which is nice but I always use aperture priority or manual. It also has a 96% finder.

About the data imprinting on frame 0: Don't count on this being like the Contax data imprinting. It may just print an index number on the frame. If it prints exposure info, that'll be great though.

To the original question of how would it improve my photography? I actually find AF useful when taking shots of bugs with my 200/4 Micro. If I had multiple focusing points and faster AF, it would help even more as I could avoid centering the subject easier.

The real question is, since I already own an N90s, should I buy an F100 or spend the money on another lens. The lens is probably a better choice.

-- Paul Wilson (pwilson@ultranet.com), November 24, 1998.

Does anybody have info on the price? Thanks.

L.P.

-- Louis-Philippe Masse (phisa@generation.net), November 24, 1998.

Folks, take a look at:

-- http://www.maxwell.com.au/photo/cameras/slr/f100.html -- Is that lens the new 28-105/3.5-4.5AF-D on the F100? I can't identify it as any other Nikkor.

BTW - Nikon has just introduced my dream camera. I never wanted an F5 for the large size, weight, and exccess number of batteries. The F100 is it! Start saving now.

What the heck, since usenet style stuff is allowed here...

Isn't it great that Nikon decided to give us a METAL camera!!! I hear Canon is doing really exciting stuff with plasitc (ha-ha!)

Nikon rules!!!

I wouldn't exactly say usenet style stuff is allowed here. Close maybe, but not quite. For one thing, I won't allow metal vs plastic debates. The Ruger P95 9mm pistol put any doubts I had about the durability of plastic to rest. I know it isn't a camera, but it illustrates the point that things can be engineered with a lot more durability than the weight would suggest. For those who are not familiar with firearms, the stainless steel slide of the P95 mates directly to the plastic frame, rather than riding on metal inserts like the Glock and S&W Sigma. It survived 20,000 rounds of +P+ (law enforcement only) ammo without any significant wear. This is a test that most metal guns have a problem with, and will quickly reveal any weak spots. Brad

-- Dan Brown (dbrown@uniden.com), November 24, 1998.

Geez Dan, Didn't you see "The Graduate?" "The future is PLASTICS." As far as I am concerned though, metal rules! I have been secretly hoping for a new AF metal nikon without the bulk of the F5...

Just in case anyone was wondering, I don't mind if you say you prefer metal, I just don't want to start a metal vs plastic thread. I prefer the weight savings of plastic, and am perfectly comfortable with the durability issue. Others like the heft of metal, and feel more secure with it. So be it. Just no baiting with comments like Dan's please. Brad

-- Mack Padre (Mackpadre@uswest.net), November 24, 1998.

Actually, Vince, there are some Japanese firms who design and manufacture firearms. Since they are sold mostly inside Japan, or produced for police and "Self-Defending Forces"; you may not know their presence.

As for the F100, I always welcome the choices that the manufacturers provide to us. We just have to be conscious on what we REALLY need and what we don't. For me, I'll keep my F90x rather than jumping on a new camera. To me, another lens would be much more attractive.

Me again! The post Hiroshi is refering to was deleted as soon as I saw it because it violated 2 of the rules of this forum. Keep it civil, and keep it about photography. Saying that people who play with guns should be taken out and flogged is far from civil, and causes me to question the motives of such people who claim that guns are the cause of violence. The post had nothing to do with photography, and while my example of the Ruger P95 didn't either, it was meant as an extreme example of why I won't allow metal vs plastic arguments here, nothing else. They both have advantages, but neither is really superior. As the creator of this forum I prefer to be somewhat hands off, but reserve the right to be heavy handed when I see fit, and new product introductions generally bring out the whiners who seem to think we should all stay frozen in time and technology, thus all of the warnings to keep it civil. I personally welcome new products whether I will ever own them or not, and like to keep up with what is available. As Phillip, Bob, and Don have said, if you don't like the way I do things, start your own forum. Sorry for the rant. Brad.

-- Hiroshi Shigematsu (pooh02@earthlink.net), November 25, 1998.

Bob, to answer the question posed, I think that a new body or lens helps improve one's photography to the extent that it gets one excited about going out and shooting with it, perhaps trying new techniques or experimenting with the new technologies and either accepting or rejecting them as part of one's personal photographic repertoire. It's an expensive self-assignment ("go out and shoot with a new camera body"), but, hey, whatever it takes to stay fresh.

I will pass on the F100 (partly a financial reality and partly my belief that my N90s and F3/T combo will serve all my photographic needs for the next several years). But, it's still exciting when there's something new in photography, whether it's a talented new photographer, an inspirational new book, or even a slick new camera body.

-- John Kuraoka (kuraoka@home.com), November 25, 1998.

OK, comment withdrawn, with apologies.

Still doesn't in any way dampen my excitement about the new F100!

-- Dan Brown (dbrown@uniden.com), November 25, 1998.

Back to photography.

The reasons I am happy to see this new camera are many. As an expreienced N90s user, I have learned of its shortcomings, and I hope the F100 willl cure most of these. I would get the F100 and then use the N90s as the back-up. Rather, put a tele-zoom on one body and a WA zoom on the other. Pefect for event shooting.

The dual command dial on the F100 will allow very convenient control of shutter and aperture in 1/3 stop increments. N90s is clumsy when using the lens aperture ring (IMO). Better metering is nice, but there is reeally nothing wrong with the N90s metering, at least not in my shooting.

But what is really great, is the 5-point AF sensors and spot meters. Having used the N90s for football, car racing and other "action" photorgraphy, the center AF sensor forced center composition. Now, the F100 allows selection of the focus point and should allow for better composition in action environments.

Built in auto bracketing is a nice touch too. I like the 96% viewfinder over the N90s 92% finder. Ditto for all-mode depth of field viewing.

IMO, this camera may become the dominant Nikon "pro" body being that it is smaller and probably cheaper and has the stuff to get the job done and hopefully will take a fair bit of abuse in the process, like letting the 80-200/2.8 dangle from the body while slung from a strap without concern about "warping" the camera lenns mount.

Its a good thing.

-- Dan Brown (dbrown@uniden.com), November 25, 1998.

For the record, for those of you who are concerned, I don't mind if you mention what a camera is made of, or even if you say you prefer metal over plastic. The notes I put in the posts below were just to let people know what the limits were. The metal vs plastic question was beat to death on the EOS mailing list, and if I remember, also on usenet and probably photo.net too. Neither seems to be clearly better than the other. Most metal will bend easier than high quality plastic will break. In cameras, both seem to take about the same amount of abuse before failure. Even if one could stand up to more abuse than the other could the delicate internal parts stand up to it? No one has ever given a satifactory argument for one being better than the other, just things than one can do better, without regard to what the other can do. As such, I ask that you save the discussion of which is better for usenet.

I try not to overmoderate this forum, but there are some things that I don't want discussed here. Metal vs plastic camera body/lensmount/lens is one of those things. Thank you.

-- Brad (reloader@webtv.net), November 26, 1998.

Dan, I think you're right about the new lens 28-105/3.5-4.5 AFS. It has been confirmed in http://www.photodo.com/news/ . This is really the lens I have been waiting for : 24-50 and 35-70 are too short, 24-120 is too slow, 28-70/2.8 too expensive, 28-85, 35-105 and 35-135 too average in quality. Hope the optics will meet Nikon standards. Ivan.

-- Ivan Verschoote (ivan.verschoote@rug.ac.be), November 26, 1998.

Someone please! THE PRICE? :-)

L.P.

-- Louis-Philippe Masse (phisa@generation.net), November 26, 1998.

Price for F100 ? According to photodo.com about $1200.00

-- Gary Rod (grodxxx1@mneta.net), November 26, 1998.

I think Nikon has built a great *replacement* for the N90s, and the perfect AF backup camera for the F5. Nikon says that it's the camera between the N90s and the F5, Hogwash! I'd be surprised if the N90s makes it to the end of 1999! I know if I had to pick between them, it would be the F100 just for it's updated AF system. I can't wait for the new user's to start reporting on it. With all the new cameras, and lenses the airways should be buzzin' about Feb., or so. It's a great way to start 1999!

-- Jim Bridges (jcbejb@worldnet.att.net), November 27, 1998.

There is a Nikon pro camera, all metal body, with MLU, 100% finder, and depth of field preview, which can be had for about $300. For those of you who don't need a computer program to focus or to make up your mind for you whether to use f/5.6 or f/8, this camera should be just the thing. It features an uncluttered finder without any distracting LEDs, LCDs, lights, bells or whistles; some of the most solid construction and best ergonomics of any camera ever made; and will accept a tremendous variety of inexpensive Nikkor NAi lenses which trendy pros and wealthy amateurs have dumped into the used market for a pittance. But the best part about this camera is that it does not take the fun of photography away from you, allowing YOU to decide on the focus, f/stop and shutter speed instead of IT. It also looks really cool, sporting that classic "retro" look that is so popular these days. I believe it has the "F" designation. Anyone heard of it?

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), November 27, 1998.

Here you can see some pictures of the F100-camera and also the new AF- S Nikkor 28-70/2,8: http://www.interfoto.no/nikon/f100.asp

-- (Norman.Kjfrvik@Statkraft.no), December 01, 1998.

The other feature that I'd forgotten about is the AF Start button, which is something Philip raves about in the Canon system. How useful have other people found this to be with the Canon? I could see how I'd find it pretty nice.

-- Andrew Y. Kim (andy_roo@mit.edu), December 01, 1998.

For all those perpetuating the complaint that F100 has no Mirror LockUp (MLU), keep in mind the following: MLU exists because mirror mechanism creates vibration, yes? Mirror mechanism created by man, not by God, yes? If man can build camera with mirror mechanism that not cause vibration, why you need MLU?

That's just my take. N90s is a brick, a sturdy camera that has great dampening of the mirror motion. There's no need for MLU. One less button to press. A lot of people are mentioning that Canons have them kinda implying that makes Canon a better choice. Canons are great cameras but I wonder whether the lighter plastic doesn't facilitate good dampening and THAT'S why they need MLU... that's not an anti- Canon flame, just a thought. - DJP

-- Darryl Pentz (pentz@inetnow.net), December 06, 1998.

I believe that "data imprinting on frame 0" will be the same on the F100 as the N90S (F90X).

What is imprinted on frame 0 is the number of the datafile that will be downloaded with Photo Secretary. That is a "1" will be imprinted to key the film to the exposure data downloaded in datafile "D0001.NKN", a "999" will be imprinted for datafile D0999.NKN etc.

-- Brian D. Duncan (bduncan@axionet.com), December 08, 1998.

By the way - is anyone aware of any independent reviews of the F100 at this point?

Thanks.

-- Brian D. Duncan (bduncan@axionet.com), December 08, 1998.

darryl.

why does nikon put MLU on the F5? is it smaller and lighter or built worse then the N90s? i don't know but i doubt it...

-- Sean Hester (seanh@ncfweb.net), December 08, 1998.

Brian,

There is a review of the F100 in the last (January) issue of the Pop.Photography made be Herbert Keppler.

-- Nikolai Soubbotin (Nsoubbotin@worldbank.org), December 09, 1998.

'Herbert Keppler' isn't that the old idiot who cannot see the difference beween a polaroid and a slide ? His review of the F100 will certainly be very, very good.

-- evil (satan@hell.com), December 10, 1998.

Bert Keppler's "First Look" is not a review--it's just an overview, containing the same information that you can get from the brochure.

-- Danny Weber (danny_weber@compuserve.com), December 10, 1998.

Sean, mirror lockup is also useful in mounting non-retrofocus short focal length lenses on an SLR. In this case, the rear of the lens may protrude into the camera body so far as to damage the mirror if not locked up. By including MLU, Nikon has allowed the use of some old lenses on the F5.

Dan.

-- Daniel I. Applebaum (danapple@vicor.com), December 11, 1998.

Nikon now has a online brochure for the F100, if anyone is interested about all the features of the F100 http://www.klt.co.jp/Nikon/PPD/New_Products/F100/Product_Details/Featu res/index.html

-- Jim Bridges (jcbejb@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 1998.

Does anybody know if the F100 has flash compensation built into the body like the N90s? I don't see an obvious button for flash comp in the pictures I have seen and the specs don't mention it or I have missed it.

-- STanley McManus (Stanshooter@excite.com), December 15, 1998.

It has flash bracketing, but no flash compensation unless the flash has it (SB-24/5/6/7/8).

-- Danny Weber (danny_weber@compuserve.com), December 15, 1998.

I've just bought the French magazine chasseur d'Images. The magazine is one of the few reputable magazines in the world towards lens and camera testing. About the test this month of the F 100: the camera is outstanding! Its more like a small F5. If you are looking for a drawback, there's may'be one, the big consumption of batteries (like F5 isn't it?). Price for the camera WITHOUT MB15: in France around 1750 US $, in Germany around 1540 US $. (F5 in Germany costs around 2500 US $).

-- Ivan Verschoote (ivan.verschoote@rug.ac.be), December 16, 1998.

Daniel

Respectfully, I don't see the point of mirror lockup if the lens in question can't be used without it.

Typically one would be using a tripod, frame the picture in the viewfinder and select an exposure setting (perhaps checking depth of field at various f-stops) before locking up the mirror - at which point the viewfinder would black out.

If the lens in question requires the mirror to be locked up to avoid damage before the lens is mounted, the photographer will be working completely blind with no viewing system.

-- Brian D. Duncan (bduncan@axionet.com), December 24, 1998.

Brian, a few early Nikkors do require MLU to be mounted onto the camera body. Fortunately Nikon provided a flash shoe mounted viewfinder with them. Most of these old lenses are fisheyes, and with theses focusing isn't an issue (although the finder isn't exact so your feet may end up in the frame if you're not careful). Nikon also converted their 21 f4 RF lens to the F-mount. It has a reputation for extremely little distortion. Today it is somewhat of a collectible.

It is my understanding, however, that Nikon does not recommend mounting these lenses on the F4 or the F5. The multi-bladded shutters on these cameras are thicker than the titanium horizontal-traveling shutters of the F, F2 and F3 and rear element of the lens could interfere with it. Speaking of shutters, when the F4 first came out Nikon made a big deal about how it contained an extra curtain to eliminate light leaks when the mirror was locked up. Apparently the N8008(s), N90(s) and F100 are lacking this (though I still think that they should have offered some sort or mirror pre-fire when using the self timer like the FM/FE/FA series had).

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@pgh.nauticom.net), December 28, 1998.

>>>It is my understanding, however, that Nikon does not recommend mounting these lenses on the F4 or the F5.

if that's the case, i ask again. why did nikon put mirror lockup on the F5? i still think it's because it will lead to sharper pictures in many cases. and the lack of mirror lockup on the n90 and f100 is a real drawback.

-- Sean Hester (seanh@ncfweb.net), December 29, 1998.

Sean, you'll get no arguments from me. No matter how well mirror vibrations can be dampened, no vibrations will always be better.

I'm not sure why Nikon chose to leave MLU (or mirror pre-fire with self-timer) off all non-"F" cameras since the FA. I also don't know why Nikon is so insistant on calling the N90s and F100 "pro cameras". I've never heard anyone call any Nikkormat, FM/FE/FA series or N8008(s) or the original N90 a piece of junk. I'm sure that it's just a marketing gimmick.

One can easily speculate that MLU is no longer as necessary as it was in the days of the Nikkormat. One can even believe Nikon when they say that except for the extra special (and extra $$$) shutters of the F4 and F5, light leaks could be a problem with MLU. But I haven't heard a good reason why the mirror pre-fire with the self timer is no longer a feature.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@pgh.nauticom.net), December 29, 1998.

If anyone has seen the USA suggested retail price for the F100, please let us know. Thanks

-- (Twilight16@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

I read that B&H will be offering it at about $1250.

I am a very happy owner of an F5, thanks to the generosity of my wife, who gave it to me for a birthday present a couple of years ago. The metering is vastly superior to that of the F4, which I previously owned.

My wife has been using an N90 for several years. Her exposures were generally better than mine with the F4 and now that's no longer the case. I'm thinking of getting her an F100 (because it is so much lighter than the F5, not because I am less generous than she) in the hopes that this will bring her exposures closer to those that I am now getting. Do you think that this will be the right move?

-- Win Robins (suewinrob@banet.net), January 20, 1999.

Current F100 price at CWO is $1200. They have 50 on back order. (1-28-99)

-- Z (Zoneten@hotmail.com), January 29, 1999.

B&H finally put the price of the F100 on their web page....$1299. $100 less than the EOS 3 if anyone is interested.

-- Scott Gant (sgant@interaccess.com), February 03, 1999.

Also very interesting on that B&H webpage is the comparison chart of F90x - F100 - F5. Oddly, the F100 is NOT provided with an eyepiece shutter.

-- Ivan Verschoote (ivan.verschoote@rug.ac.be), February 04, 1999.

The Nikon F100 undoubtedly is a professional grade instrument, though it makes one wonder why nikon price discriminates so "cheaply", denying essential features to lower end machines, or crippling an excellent machine like the N70s with a user inetrface designed by a numbskull.

Yet there is a problem with with the F100, for those who are sensitive enoughg to notice. I have had the pleasure of owning one and testing about five others at the ritz camera shops in cambridge.

The autofocus hunts enough to make it seem less surefooted that an N90s especially in indoor low-contrast situations. Yesterday I spent an hour at the cambridgeside galleria with an N90s, an F100 both munted with 80-200 2.8s and a 300 f4 fixed USM on a canon A2E.

Was just amazed at the number of times the F100 hesitated in the single shot mode both with automaticand manual choice of focal point. The N90s naile down things much faster with shorter hums as aginst the prolonged CLICKS that the f100 makes before locking on. And the Canon. SUffice it to say the it racks once or sometimes back after crossing optimum focus to lock on like a mountain goat on a cliff. And I am a nikon owner.

SO it doesn't seem as if a newer AF algorithm in the F1900 has done much to compensate for the less powerful motor than in the F5. The F5 locks on really fast , fast enough for me to not notice the hunt if there is any.

Before you guys rant - go check a few out in a store with a long lens. The problem is real. Though not bad enough to deter one from buying the machine. BUt one could do without the hesitation in a 1300 dollar machine.

-- Siddharth Das (bitts@mit.edu), March 19, 1999.