I just read in three articles about the sewer system backing up into homes + apts via sinks, toilets, bathtubs because of problems in water treatment plants. Is this actually a possible scenario? With enough supplies, should the Y2K disruptions last 3 months, I was thinking Y2K could be survivable. The thought of raw sewage gushing into + throughout the insides & outsides of neighborhoods is making me reconsider. The stench, disease, rotting, soaking into furniture + files, etc. and human aversion really makes the imagination pale. Has this been addressed before? Are there any sanitation experts who know how likely this could be? Also, have been reading about Hurricane Mitch on the Internet. There was immediate looting. That, I think, will happen in any disturbance, even in the USA, especially if the lights go out, definitely if ppl get hungry. The leaders in Central America have publicly stated that their countries are ruined. It is a sobering foretaste of Y2K if things proceed as now portrayed in congressional testimonies. What destroys cities is fire from ruptured gas lines and rioting. I'm a relatively Y2K newbie (+ 'Net newbie) but my husband & I have been FEMA-trained in two cities as Emergency Response Team Leaders for natural disasters, mainly flooding, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions. We live in the beautiful (and cold!) Pacific Northwest. What *really* boggles our minds is that the EmergResponse folks have never mentioned Y2K; it's not on their radar. When we brought it up as a consideration, they pooh-poohed us. It is fluffy fizz to them. Today, 11/5/98, we've marked on our calendar as the day Y2K broke thru critical mass consciousness. Finally we've overheard ppl talking about it, seen it mentioned on every main news channel, seen the articles multiplying, even our mild-mannered Eye Dr. said he has bought polyplastic panels to shield his windows. But still ridicule from the Fire Dept personnel. (!?) Do you think the sewer system is really going to back up in our homes? That

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 05, 1998

Answers

We don't know.

See, this particular problem is strictly (and literally) local; and an answer depends on several things: all of them would be applicable only to your local water department, the location of your house, the location of other houses nearby, and the location of the water treatment plant closest to you. Also, the style of your city's drains and sewage plant and the storm drainage system will affect your situation.

Availability of electricity and control systems (the so-called copper and iron triangles) affect their emergency capacity too.

Okay, somebody else check me on this - make sure I haven't forgotten something.

Let's focus on the physical reasons for water contamination and sewage backup - then you will have to go look at your own data. to see where you stand.

In general, water is pumped from surface or underground reserviors or aquifers into a treatment and filter facility, then in to the city water system - no power equals no water pressure very rapidly, say a blackout or series of rolling blackouts lasting 2-3 days. The tanks visible are used to create static pressure, minimize surges, and allow for a short backup - they aren't "big enough" to last for more than a few hours. Water systems nationally are a disgrace - in terms of efficiency and leakage - and MUST be kept pressurized or the "dirty" groundwater will leak back into the clean water pipes. If any groundwater is suspected to have leaked back into the water pipes (as happens when a large pipe breaks, and system pressure is lost for a while) the whole thing (all branches downstream of the break) must be re-pressurized and flushed. Generally, you have a "boil water" alert until the city has sampled several remote stations several times in a row, and gotten "good" water (no ground contaminates) each time.

A few cautions: fire fighting water comes from the same water pipes, but obviously, you can use "dirty" water (or even pump water from a open lake or pond) to fight fires if you have the right kind of fire truck. Flushing water (for your toilet) can be present any time there is water pressure - regardless of whether the water is "clean enough" to drink. Also, if water pressure is present, you can get "dirty water", boil it, and then use it for drinking or cooking. Never assume "dirty" water will be "heated" enough by cooking to clean dishes in it, or wash your hands, or use directly in cooking (like for soup or noodles.) Boil it first, filter too if available.

So now you have "good" water at your home tap. You can see it depends on power, control of the pumps and filtering plant (not too much chlorine or flouride, not too little for example)

Sewage almost always depends only on gravity flow to the sewage plant: exceptions are apparently FL (where ground water levels are high, and the sewage must be pumped) and New Orleans (and similar) where the river is actually higher than the city - so everything must be pumped up all the time.

By the way - don't expect a big Mardi Gras in year 2000 - it will be nasty down there.

Power (one of the legs of the iron triangle) is still required for the filters, sprays, pumps, gate valves, and controllers. Then the copper triangle comes into play. If the sewage station has good computers (Y2K compliant), good control circuits (embedded chips), and good programs (programs that will work correctly, or at least not fail catastrophically) then the sewage plant recieves the "gunk", filters it, treats it, deodoerizes (-2 sp) it, and must discharge it. It can't "hold" onto the water - but must pass the "cleaned" water downstream - normally to a creak or river.

Problems = if the street storm drains (as most used to) dischrage into the sewage system, this capacity is overwhelmed, and dirty water (sewage) is discharged downstream. Now, these older systems are slowly getting changed, but many still regularly discharge untreated (or partially treated) sewage downstream.

Several possible Y2K control failures can occur - the treatment plant fails, everything is discharged with no treatment. Or partial treatment occurs to the wwaste water (maybe more likely), or sewage is overtreated, then undertreated as flow changes but the valves stay in their original position.

Manual control at small water and sewage treatment plants is more possible than in remote sites like oil and gas fields, but very difficult over the long period. At least, in this case, the sewage drains downstream - unless your family is one of the ones downstream. Then you have great cause to be alarmed. Remember, the treatment and filter plants downstream may not be working properly.

Second possible failure mode: the plant fails "shut" or partially shut - no sewage is discharged, or too little sewage is discharged. But sewage continues to go into the system from toilets and washing machines and garbage disposals and whatever. Or (if power were down) from storm drains and manually flushed toilets. The sewage treatment plants have limited (very limited) storage tanks and ponds (since they smell) for raw sewage. So the sewage would tend to "back up" the pipes, overflowing as each opening is reached - manhole covers, street drains, lower laying area toilets, sinks, etc.

As the pressure from higher areas increases, more lower level houses and streets are affected until: as much is leaking out to the open and flowing into the creeks and surface water, as fast as it gets filled from higher up toilets and storm drains. There is nothng in most house plumbing systems to prevent sewage from flowing "backwards" into the house if the main gets blocked up. There are u-bend to prevent gasses from flwoing, but these don't prevent water (fluid) under pressure, from flowing.

Question now is: where are you with respect to the nearest creek, nearest sewage plant, nearest water fileter plant, nearest storm darin? How are your local drains handled? Is your water district/city water company y2K tested? What are their plans?

What are your plans? Who will you go see to get more information?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 05, 1998.

Thank you, Robert Cook, that is a really good, clear explanation. We live about 2 miles uphill from a large river. It's a low-income apt. complex, 1 unit on top, some on each side. Good management, but they don't believe in Y2K: "We'll deal with it if it happens." *sigh* I will be looking into all the points you suggest finding out about. Thank you very much. The sewer backing up prospect bugs me the most of all prep issues.

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 05, 1998.

We are strictly gravity feed here in my little corner of S. California...all doo-doo points downhill to the treatment facility near the ocean about 15 miles to the south...only problem should be enough rainwater to flush the tanks.....universe knows...we have our hands full with the drinking water issue....but I digress.

Oh...they make no guarantees about the treatment facility...it's only the Pacific Ocean, afterall (tongue in very saddened cheek)

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), November 05, 1998.

Robert: What about dams whose gates fail to open and close? Those downstream are in great jeopardy. If gates cannot open to release water, then dams could burst or overflow sending milions of gallons of water downstream. If gates remain open, it will release millions of gallons of water until the level of the dam reaches the bottom of the flood gates. Here in California, the most vulerable are: Shasta, Lake Oroville, and Hetch Hetchy. There are many other dams and resevoirs that are just as vulnerable.

-- Bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), November 05, 1998.

Bardou, at the City of Fullerton Y2K Special Meeting for the City Council..the water and county people said they make no guarantees about the water/sewage treatment facilities near the ocean...I am imagining that includes any on inland waters...Really sucks, doesn't it?

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), November 06, 1998.

No, no, no, no.

Dams don't work that way. There are significant problems with Hetch-Hetchy, the Sierra dams, and with the water supply in general to SFO and its environs, but they are not going to fail catastrophically that way - if the gates fail open or shut.

Every dam is designed to hold a certain level of water. Given no earthquake cracks, water in must be either stored or released. If it is stored, lake level rises - generally, this is a good thing in the winter. You'll drink that water next summer. Release is controlled through power sluices (invisible 20-30 foot diameter tunnels below water level to the turbines below the dam) or control gates ( the huge panels above the dam) to control release rates, and thus adjust water level (upstream) and flow (downstream.) Only if water level is high enough to get to the flood gates can they be used - other wise they are dry.

In your particular case of CA Sierras, water flow in mid minter is no problem, it is deliberately being held to build reserves for summer usage, up to the point where enough is stored for safety - remember the drought years of 85-86-87? If spring rains and snow melt actually starts going high enough that no more needs to be stored - which is assumed to happen, but seldom does - then the designers have several mechanisms. they normally apply all of these.

First, they just generate more power from below and sell it - more water flows out, lake level goes down. Then they open the release gates (flood gates) above the dam - you see the beautifully arcing water spewing over the face of the dam down to the valley below, then continuing on. Water engineers don't like doing this, because they can't sell the power, can't sell the water for irrigation or drinking, and can't get the water "back" if a drought occurs later, but they do it when needed.

Lastly, there is a "spillway" cut around every dam and stock tank in the nation. It is a "lower" natural path around the edge of the dam that cannot under any circumstances be blocked by a road, bridge, building, or other structure - it must be big enough and contructed correctly so ALL the possible calculated water that could ever possibly come into the lake from continuous rainfall upstream can go through this "low spot" without damaging the dam. The water is not allowed over the face of the dam, but rather around it without causing erosion or "cutting" of the face of the dam.

There are no gates or structures to fail on the spillway. Therefore, no y2K interface or danger.

There is, as we discussed about the Bonneville and Lower Colorado River Authority (LCRA) dams, probable problems with controlling the water flow through the power turbines, and thus generating power, and probable problems with the floodgates not being able to physically be hand-cranked into position if there is a blackout itself. But there is no danger relative to y2K from the Sierra dams.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 06, 1998.

Considering your concern about release rates affecting downstream life - around here, people love it, and go kayaking and white water rafting.

Seriously, think about the timing. failure would occur in mid-winter, before the snow has seriously accumulated, and four months before the snowmet begins to start overflowing the gates or spillways and forcing uncontrolled releases. And if it does, the release is less than before the dams (and so has less effect) and more slowly felt downstream - there is a faster mass of water flowing past in the channel over aperiod of several days, rather than a massive flood wiping out towns in an afternoon.

Also, the spring floods would occur only if the dams were overflowing, which has not happened lately. Also, the spring melt and rising water occurs in Apr-May, hopefully the Y2K effects are being reduced by them (maybe even earlier) so the gates can be operated (by crane ? if need be) assuming the power isn't back, and so still nothing happens.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 06, 1998.

In the Wild Winter of 1996, the Pacific Northwest experienced very severe flooding. Floods in Nov 95. Snows in Dec + Jan. Ice storm followed by three weeks of subfreezing temps, holding snow, ice, and totally saturated ground immobile. Then a sudden thaw and torrential warm rains from the "Pineapple Express" for a week. Result: Massive historical flooding. But the electricity was still on, and the sewers didn't back up everywhere. Yes, unbelievable backlog of water overflowing dams in wintertime. It was a huge mess. Same area as Mt. St. Helens and the 1993 earthquake. You'd think they'd be more interested

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 06, 1998.

Leska -- and all-

Sewage treatment plants are generally located at a lower elevation than most of the facilities they serve, since they depend on gravity flow. I can't think of a scenario where the outflow from a sewage treatment plant would be interrupted, since no plant is designed for long term storage of normal flow. Several times since I've lived in this area (near Atlanta) there have been failures in the treatment system, which always results in discharge of untreated or inadequately treated sewage into the river.

The problem you've read about would usually be the result of a power failure. In many cities and towns, there are areas where the sewage has to be lifted. A pump is installed and what amounts to an inverted U of metal pipe is built to get over the hump. These are called "force mains" and sewage flow through them depends on the pump working dependably. If flow is low the pump may idle until needed; but it has to be on call all the time. The pumps need electricity to run. When they stop the force mains won't work. While they're inoperative, sewage will back up behind them. Once the level in the sewers rises to the lowest basement on the line, that basement will start filling up. In combined sewer systems (storm water and waste water combined) the backed-up sewage would flow out of any street drains it reached.

As Rob Cook says, it's strictly a local situation.

There's one consolation. If the power failure is severe enough, the water purification plants won't be working anyway, so city taps will only run until the local standpipes are emptied. After that very little sewage will be flowing, if any. The force mains won't matter then.

But I understand that in a power shortage local electric utilities can allocate power to essential services, such as water and sewage treatment plants. In a complete outage, everything stops.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 06, 1998.

All:

The contents of this thread is one of the reasons I don't live in the metro area of Austin anymore. While my last neighbors were good people , they, at some point, may have to confront Leska's concerns being addressed here. My septic system is compliant as are my 2 wells with spare submersible pumps, a 25kw diesel generator to power them, a 1700 gal. water cistern to gravity feed the house and 500 gal. of diesel(maybe not enough). Not minor expenses, however, all in all some of the more basic items for sustained, semi-comfortable self sufficiency. And, if nothing happens, it all is consumed over time anyway.

Had this kind of option not been financially available, I'd be out at my grandparent's farm, enjoying the quiet in a (purchased-on-credit-try to-find-me) RV travel trailer.

Different folks are bound to have a multitude of perspectives as their thought processes are forced to advance thru a myriad of possibilities, while that "term paper" due date closes in. Hopefully the avenue driven down is the easiest to back out of, if Y2K proves a dud.

Good luck to all.

-- Charles R. (chuck_roast@trans.net), November 06, 1998.

I asked our city superindendent if all the city's sewage would flow without power. He said, yes, down to within a couple of blocks of the lagoons. Pumps have to lift it into the lagoons from whence the treated effluence free-flows to the river.

If and when TSHTF the lagoon will get bigger. And denser. And smellier. And Typhoid Mary will be resurrected.

-- dummer (observer@timebomb.2000), November 06, 1998.

Leska ,

Have a good shovel, and a gardening trowel, as part of your Y2K preparation kit. Dig a deep hole, use it for awhile, placing something natural in it to keep down the nasties (forget what but the Sierra Club will know. Later fill in that hole and plant a tree over it. Leaves work when you run out of paper. We used to do this all the time when I was a kid, back-packing into the High Sierras for two weeks every year. Oh, dont dig near a water supply.

Also be ready to move if necessary as a back-up strategy.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 06, 1998.

Well, technically speaking, the problem will happen when TSHTS (Sewer) not TSHTF (Fan); but that's irreverant/irrelevent/totally uncalled for.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 06, 1998.

Yes, Diane, know what you mean, might have to do. We used to have dogs; got a small plastic can, buried it to top in earth. Would put doggie doo in there, kept it doused w/ water, added scoop of enzyme a week. Little hungry microbes kept waste & smell to harmless little puddle on bottom of barrell. Very cheap & efficient. Hhhmmm, wonder what the neighbors will think? They'll all be completing to sit over our hole. Oh well, really hope it does not come to this, but an outhouse is better than the stuff overflowing throughout the house, maybe five feet deep. EEEeeeeeekkkkkkkk !!

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 06, 1998.

In the archived threads I discovered this one: Know Your Sources, which includes several posts discussing this sewage disposal problem. In particular with reference to associated problems of disease.

One poster noted that his county has emergency generators at each force main to keep the pump working during a power outage. In some of the more dismal Y2K scenarios, of course, the stored fuel would eventually run out. But as mentioned above any outage lasting that long would also mean no water flowing anyway.

Building an outhouse in the back yard is a viable solution only if the back yard is above the final level of the pool.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 07, 1998.

I'm going to dress up in a dog suit and use the lawns of my neighbors just as they have allowed their doggie pets to use my front lawn.....and they laugh while its happening!

-- t c mann (trashcan-man@webtv.net), November 07, 1998.

Hi folks, resurrecting an old thread because just read this, which got our sewage fears stirred up again.

North Dakotans Shiver Through Power Failure After Snowstorm

[ excerpts, For Educational Purposes Only ]

April 3, 1999 .... CUTTING WATER USE
....
Grand Forks City Engineer Ken Vein said as many as eight of the city's sewer lift stations remained without power through much of Friday. But crews were hooking up large generators to several of the stations' pumps, and carting around portable generators to other lift stations to keep sewage levels down.

The city also had asked residents to curtail water use to release pressure on the system.
--------------------------------------------------------------

This just does not sound good at all! In Cascadia around New Year's (uh, October-June too) we have bucketfuls of endless rain flooding our entire drainage system. There is no such thing as curtailing water! Also, the terrain is hills & dales, and of course there are pumping stations. The plan is to open the valves and let the sewage flow into streams, but many of those are just little ribbons flowing through neighborhoods.

Wonder how easy it will be for crews to cart generators around to pumps while mayhem and various $#!+ is breaking loose all around, and continues more than 3 days. The pressure will definitely force back-up. It happens to basements all the time in flat areas now.

Sounds like even if water is still being treated & pumped for drinking, the cityzzzzns will be asked to ration because of the sewage pressure problem. Think this plan will only last a couple days before TSHTHouses and people are seriously literally pissed.

For those living in rainy areas, this will be a real disaster.
We will be able to plug our drains with the plumber "footballs," but not the neighbors, and the smell all around us will probably drive us out. Plus, well-meaning enforcers will declare sewage-swamped structures uninhabitable and evacuate to shelters.

This, after FIRES, is the worst Y2K problem! Going to have to go on a campaign to get the apt. manager to shut all valves (if possible) before rollover. So many weeples want to "wait and see," but in this case, waiting until TSHTF will be too late; the pressure will cause an abrupt and forceful spouting that will be monstrous to try to wrestle to a halt.

So frustrating, because we're in a good place except for Y2K :(
If it were just a 3-day "storm" bump in the road we'd be sitting pretty. Dam Y2K! Wish we could kick it ;(

Any suggestions out there? Anybody else going to be stuck in an apartment complex?

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

Leska, I talked to Cherne Industries recently regarding their Test-Ball Plug. Although they indicated it would be possible to use the Plug to stop sewage backflow they also said you would have to check it frequently throughout the day to be sure the pressure was adequate.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 03, 1999.

Aacckk! Thanks Ray. You mean I have to yell, "Ashton, quick, watch the footballs!?" Does this mean the plugs weaken frequently and we have to keep pumping them up? It will be a drain to constantly monitor the danger holes. Just think, every toilet, sink, dishwasher, bathtub, shower -- what about outside spigots? Do the ball plugs wear out?

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

Long time ago I owned a house just a little below street level. To make a long story short we had a flood and everything came up the toilet. The only way to stop the flow was to uncover a cleanout in front yard. It ran out in the yard for 3 days. After the mess was cleaned up. I had a oneway flaper valve installed in sewer line, the valve also had a manuel shut off.

-- && (&&@&&.&), April 03, 1999.

We'd do all that right now but we're in an apt! We don't have the freedom to alter the pipes. Who knows how apartments in general are constructed with the plumbing? Think it was @ 1973. ???

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

Cherne Industries 800 THE PLUG 800 843-7584 They will give you the name of a distributor near you.

-- ronbanks (phxbanks@webtv.net), April 03, 1999.

Leska commented:

"Aacckk! Thanks Ray. You mean I have to yell, "Ashton, quick, watch the footballs!?" Does this mean the plugs weaken frequently and we have to keep pumping them up? It will be a drain to constantly monitor the danger holes. Just think, every toilet, sink, dishwasher, bathtub, shower -- what about outside spigots? Do the ball plugs wear out?"

This is what they told me at Cherne Industries. Now maybe they were just being conservative when they said a few times per day but I don't think this is a long term solution. I would call them to verify this info. Ron posted their # on the previous response.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 04, 1999.

Thank you Ron & Ray. Tomorrow we will call them and get the scoop. And all this time I've thought, "There's always the footballs, the footballs, the footballs" ...

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 04, 1999.

&&

How does one go about installing a back flow valve? Did you hire a plumber? I don't think my home has one - but how would I find out? Thanks

Denise

-- Denise (murrays@montana.com), April 28, 1999.

You may want to check with your insurance agent about coverage for this. Backup of sewer & drain coverage needs to be added to your homeowners or renters policy otherwise it's excluded (in my state anyway NC)

-- mb (mdbutler@coastalnet.com), April 28, 1999.

Worth another read, don't ya think?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), June 07, 1999.

See also:

How do I keep sewage from backing up into my home?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), June 07, 1999.

And this thread:

Calling all Plumbers! How do you stop your toilet and drains from backing up?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), June 07, 1999.

To update, we called Cherne, lady in Customer Service was incredulous, snorted in total ridicule that we'd be asking about plugs due to Y2K concerns; she was really rude. Not such good Customer Service. She said she'd send a brochure, but it has not come in the mail yet.

We've gone to City Hall, gotten the blueprints for entire area sewer system. Hospital on separate line but does drain into same basin. Gravity, all downhill, but of course there's folks above us too :(
One way to get to know your neighbors, NOT!

GOOD NEWS is our system is NOT the same system as storm drainage! Considering how much and fast it rains in Winter, that *will* help.

Sewer 'pro's say, well, yes if it backs up we'll just call such and who to open the lever manually, or it will come out the manhole, etc -- they haven't thought this thing through very carefully.

Next stop: We're gonna go to a contractor plumber and see what he/she recommends. The system around here has no 'single checks' or back-up valves.

Here's some Forum links with sewage discussions; there's more, but can't find them in labyrinthe archives. The uncategorized page alone takes a lloooonnnggg time to load!

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Lrk

sewage question

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Cro

Sanitation/Sewage in the cities: Health risks???

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ESh

Sewers Backing Up Into Houses?

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Eft

Septic Tanks ... I mean Thanks? WARNING: Long story!

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Eft

Septic Tanks ... I mean Thanks? WARNING: Long story!

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Eg2

Okay, let's talk about backed up sewers, etc.

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000EkJ

Back to the sewers... my mind must be in the gutter!

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00028l

Sewer Systems

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000GX2

Found a Water/Sewer Site

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000kjQ

Sewer backup during Y2K? NO PROBLEM! Put bike innertube in sewer pipe and start pumping!

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000bn1

Calling all Plumbers! How do you stop your toilet and drains from backing up?

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Od1

How do I keep sewage from backing up into my home?

Think we may be getting another hospice patient, family trying to figure things out; if so it'll be a while before we can play 'n post with y'all. Sounds like they have to "finish off" a section of the house and get a line installed before we could hook up our iMac.

Dunno, why would anybody live in a house that had a portion unfinished?! Need all the storage space possible ;^) We'll see; sometimes these job offers are velly velly strange.

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-- Ashton & Leska, too busy in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 07, 1999.

Gotta check on that valve! :-) The check valve, aka one way flapper! Hmmm, reverting to the roaring 20's?

The insurance issue is definitely an issue worth checking, too! thanks for the heads up, mb.

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), June 14, 1999.

J,

You're welcome. Here it costs $25 per year and has a separate $250 deductible.

mb in NC

-- mb (mdbutler@coastalnet.com), June 14, 1999.

oh my oh my oh my

Y2K Test Fails - 4 million gallons of sewage escapes

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 17, 1999.

My plan (I'm 300 ft. away from, and a few feet higher than, a sewage pumping station that lifts sewage to the treatment plant, which is at a higher elevation. If needed, I will cut out a small section of the vertical PVC 3-inch sewage stack that runs up thru my basement to the rest of the house. I will glue a PVC cap on each cut end, thus preventing any sewage from rising in the pipe in the basement, and preventing any drip from the dirty pipe on the house side of the cut. This will take 5-10 minutes. When problem is over, I'll call a plumber to patch pipe. Of course, I won't have a working sewer pipe until its patched, but it beats using hip waders in the basement.

-- fake (fake@out.com), June 17, 1999.

Finally got the large booklet from Cherne. Zowie, big-time professional sewer stuff in there! Was told those plugs aren't very useful for sewer backup. They gradually lose their inflation and have to be babysat and aren't meant to hold the dike at bay. Plus, the goop recedes a bit and leaves a pocket of methane gas just behind the plug. The whole city's backlog of brew ferments and the gas builds and builds and KABOOM! those plugs become sheetrock crunching projectiles followed by a pressurized spout of fermented $#!+. One guy said it's enough to, well, nuff said.

The latest helpful thread:

If the toilet backs up due to Y2k problems at the Sewer Plant

Awareness certainly has increased since the LA park fertilization was outted ;^D

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 26, 1999.

Another helpful thread:

About plumbing problems...

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.