While I am not actually a beginner (I have an old Nikon FE which is breaking down) I am in the market for a new, modest SLR rig. I read the photonet suggestions and plan to buy a Yashica T4 Super for casual use but would like to have something for portraits and close-ups. We have a baby on the way, so I don't want to spend too much money and don't want anything fussy (like buying a vintage replacement for the FE). For what it is worth, I have the non-AF 28 f/2.8, 50 f/1.2, and 200 f/4 Nikkor lenses but plan to trade them in.

I think I have narrowed down the choices to a Canon Elan IIE with a 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 image stabilized lens or a Nikon N70 with the 24-120 f/3.5-5.6 zoom. It seems that the Canon camera has gotten better reviews and the IS system of the lens is appealing (if it works well) but the Nikkor lens has gotten a better review in Popular Photography (looked up some backissues in the library, but don't know how good a publication this is).

I used to be better informed about equipment 10 years ago but have not kept up at all and want to make sure I am not wasting my money. The questions are: will these systems suffice as an all around outfit for modest expectations (4x6 shots of junior with occasional enlargements)? Is the Canon vs. Nikon issue strictly a question of personal preference or does anyone have any strong feelings which might be preferable?

I noticed that some people are offended by certain equipment questions. I hope I won't push anyone's buttons or will be accused of trying to satisfy penis envy by not strictly sticking to the Yashica. ;-)

Thanks for any responses, Torsten

-- Torsten Wiegand (twiegand@nexstar.com), August 01, 1998

Answers

I have the Elan IIe myself. I made the mistake of buying the 28-80 USM though. It was only a small mistake though, as the lens is great for close focus at 80mm, but is a little soft at 28mm. The 28-105 that I should have bought at the time has been praised quite a bit though. When I subscribed to the EOS mailing list the 28-135 IS was new and people who has used the 28-105 and bought the new lens said it was at least as good as the 28-105. By the way, image stabilization works very well. I have the 75-300 IS and routinely shoot at 1/60 at 300mm handheld with no problem. Anything slower and I prefer to use a tripod. You can shoot even slower with the 28-135 since it is shorter. I love the Elan IIe's eye control by the way, and the ergonomics and control layout were the biggest selling points for me.

As for the N70, I'll let some of the Nikon users tell you about it, but at least you wouldn't have to trade your lenses in unless you really wanted to. I don't like the ergonomics or controls, but that is personal preference. You may be more comfortable with it, so you will have to decide on that issue. For your use comfort with the camera may be the most important factor, but I will run down some of the features the Canon has that the Nikon does not.

Mirror lock-up, double exposure*, depth of field preview*, full time manual focus**, USM focus motor technology***, image stabilization**, and of course eye control.

* I think. ** Only certain Canon lenses. *** Similar technology is now available on a few very expensive Nikon lenses.

If any of these things are very important to you, then the Canon is the way to go. If not, buy the one that feels the best to you. They are both very good cameras, and neither is a bad choice.

-- Brad (reloader@webtv.net), August 02, 1998.

I think that the Nikon vs. canon is strictly an issue of personal preference. I have a Canon ElanIIE and my wife use an Elan. We are both very happy with them. Combined with a USM lens they do very well taking pictures of our neice and nephews. I would recommend sticking with Canon lens. We have a Tamron 28-200 and while the lens itself is good I really like the quiking focusing abilities of the USM lens. That is my experience and opinions hope it helps you. Congrats on the new baby

BV

-- Brian Vega (vega@micron.net), August 02, 1998.

Since you already have few Nikon lenses, why not going for Nikon? This way all you need to buy for now is a body. You will be able to see for yourself how it "fits" you and decide to keep it or go and exchange everything for, say, Canon or some other brand. I'm a Canon user, but as far as my experience with Nikon goes, I would rather get N6006 than N70 (ergonomics...). Good luck anyway.

-- Darek (dszpunar@flash.net), August 02, 1998.

Torsten, other than "breaking down", is there a reason you disklike your FE? or have you convinced yourself that you need a modern camera? Please don't take this the wrong way, everyone works differently, and you have all rights to be sick of your old camera.

A strong reason to consider Nikon for your next body, is that the 50 1.2 will come in handy for taking available light pictures of your new arrival (it's about three stops faster, or eight times brighter, than the zooms you mentioned). Unless your lenses are of the pre-AI variety, they will work will every Nikon SLR you can buy (pre-AI lenses have only one set of aperture numbers and require you to fold the metering tab on your FE out of the way).

If you can live with manual focus, you may want to look into getting a used Nikon F3 or a used Nikon FE2. Both cameras have similar controls to your FE and would be a step up in features.

If your looking for an autofocus SLR, the current offerings from Nikon and Canon are both very good. Both of these systems operate very differently from your FE. If you go Nikon avoid the N50, it won't meter with your lenses (though you can still use them). If you can't live without DOF preview (the button next to the lens by the self timer that stopped down the lens) and want autofocus, you only choices from Nikon are the N90s and the F5 (or used the N8008(s) and the F4). In this regard Canon is a better vaule for your dollar.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any more questions. --Jeff

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@pgh.nauticom.net), August 03, 1998.

Hi,

I am a user of a Canon EOS 5 and while it is not exactly a "beginner" camera, it has given me many good times with its handling. To begin with, Canon lens are good. To say that they are on par with the best is to say the least. That said, Nikon lens are no less better. Both companies have their reputation to maintain and you can always expect excellent optical quality from them.

So that leaves us with the bodies. Built-wise, Nikon cameras have always have a reputation for having more sturdy bodies. I find this a misconception. In this website alone, you can find more than a air share of stories of EOS cameras standing up to abuse. So built-wise, while a Canon EOS 5 may not stand up to a bullet, I doubt if a Nikon F90x will stand up to it too.

So that leaves features. Canon has built a reputation for itself for having the most techie features on its bodies (of course, Minolta leads the way with technological innovations but Minolta is not in your question) than Nikon's. I have never understood Nikon's rationale for only putting certain features on its pro-level bodies. With most bodies going electronic nowadays, many features are just a simple act of programming. Features-wise, Canon beats Nikon hands down on every body. Ok, maybe just the EOS1 and the F5 are comparable.

So then it comes down to personal preferences. Personally, I prefer Canon. I guess that answers your question afterall.

-- Angst Man (angst@post1.com), August 05, 1998.

Torsten...lenses are why you buy a camera system, not the body, and you have three great ones already. Your lenses will work on any new Nikon body as well as any old one.

It's just a matter of going to the camera shop and trying them on for size.

If you decide to switch systems, I'll be happy to buy the 200/4 from you.

-- Jim Tardio (snack@kincyb.com), August 07, 1998.

Torsten, First let me state that I'm just a happy amature. Personally I think that lenses flexibility is more important (and more expensive) than camera body and you should build on your nikon system. You would get a lot more camera system for your money by getting a long lens and a N-70 (and you could use your FE as a 2nd body). Consider yourself lucky that you started with nikon and you can choose to build on your old lenses! I had a similar decision, moving from the old to the new, Canon vs Nikon. I have an old canon AE1 and needed to find a long lens for a trip to Glacier/Yellowstone/Teton. I discovered that even used Canon Long lenses are very expensive but found a Sigma 400 for a nikon body for $100. I bought a N-70 and below is my thoughts on moving from the classic into the electronic autofocus world.

Nikon N70 Advantage (vs Canon AE1).

Autofocus- Only useful for tracking a moving target with a long lens. With non-auto focus this is almost impossible for me to do.

Flash- The pop-up flash will improve and save many of your pictures especially with deep shadows. You can a flash on the AE1 hot shoe, but this takes time and the nikon TTL flash system gives better exposures.

Meter- The matrix meter and spot meter on the Nikon will handle many tricky light situations.

Auto DX reading- no more bad exposures because you forgot to change the film speed.

Nikon N70 Disadvantage

Uses expensive batteries

Auto film advance makes me use twice the film

Needs expensive electronic cable release

Too many functions. You will need to have the manual with you at all times to take advantage of them.

Don't use near water. I dunked mine for 1 sec and have been told by 4 camera repair places that it is un repairable.

-- Larry Korhnak (lvk@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu), August 10, 1998.

Torsten,

You already have three superb lenses, so why change? Lenses make the image, not cameras. A slow zoom lens will force you to use flash indoors, and it requires experience and good gut feeling to obtain nice flash exposures.

On the other hand, your 50 1.2 will allow you to get beautiful images of your baby (full bodyed ones). I would add to your system something like the 85 1.4 Nikkor, for more tighter portraits.

I use EOS, but do not make the mistake of changing. After a while, you will miss your higher quality primes.

-- Paulo Bizarro (pbizarro@expro.pt), August 11, 1998.

I would recommend the Canon equipment, I have heard that the body and especially the lens are nice.

However, I not familiar with Canon at all. Much more with Nikon (have a FE, F801s and F90X). Knowing the FE, which was a nice camera for 10 years, I can only recommend you the F90X body (not the newish F70 or F50, nor the AF-outdated otherwise maybe nice F801s or F601 and also not the much too heavy and too expensive F5). You should try the Canon bodies, if you like them buy them, maybe the EOS 5 is the better choice. By the way I have of course also the T4.

Your three lenses are nice, and they will fit on a new Nikon body, BUT you will lose matrix metering, AF and the auto aperture, then its not necessary to buy an AF body at all. Trading is probably the better idea, if they are in good condition. I have read a very positive review of the Canon IS lens in a German photomagazine and I am really thinking that I would like to have the opportiunity to try such a lens.

However, if you want to spend more money, consider the F90X with a SB28 and a 24-50 plus the wonderful 80-200/2.8.

at the end it depends only on how YOU like the body and the lens, nobody will be able to tell the difference from the slides or pictures.

-- siegfried Boes (boes@first.gmd.de), August 28, 1998.

Torsten, Stick with Nikon, Dude. You got some great lenses already!! Pick up the Yashica (I got one.) for those unexpected shots and shoot lots of film with the FE. (If your FE is dead. Get another. $200 bucks. I got one of those too. Great little camera. Wouldn't you agree?) Maybe splurg and pick up a MD-12 motor drive and capture your little one in action. But stick with the Nikon and buy your little junior a baseball mitt. Let me know what you do. Out, J.B.

-- John Butler (jbutler@pond.net), August 28, 1998.

I'd recomend a Nikon N70 for you, only because you have nikon glass already. If you're willing to trade it in, and take the financial hit that it entails, I'd recomend a Minolta 600si.

It's put together in a way that you'd be familar with. All the controlls are handled by dials, just like on your older SLR, and it offers the same 14 segment metering that is in the Minolta 9.. the same camera that has been compared favorably to the F-100 and the new EOS. The best part, is the body is available new from Sammy's Camera of LA/Santa Monica for $300.

I personaly own one, and it is a machine that you will be hard pressed to outgrow. It offeres thinsg like high speed flash sync (up to 1/4000 second with a dedicated flash like the 5400HS) Multiple exposures, spot metering, remote wireless TTL flash with dedicated flashes... amongst other things.

-- Roseblood (kyller@annex.com), May 12, 1999.

Don't let anybody choose for you. Nobody have the same needs. Identify the features you really need then find the camera bodies that have them. After that, try them all and buy the one that suits your style best. Also, don't forget that the camera body is only one element in a system. Lenses, flash and other accessories are important.

Good luck.

lp

-- Louis-Philippe Masse (phisa@generation.net), May 17, 1999.